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Topic: The Cowboy, Hawaiian, Western Swing connection... |
Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 7 Aug 2011 10:31 pm |
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Nearly every time I play my lap steel, someone in the audience asks "what is that thing called?"
I of course tell them it's called a Steel Guitar, because of the steel bar.
I also sometimes make reference to the Hawaiian guitar, and also to it's use in Country & Western Music etc.
The story is just so wonderful; how that sometime in the 1800's, Mexican Cowboys brought guitars to the islands, and I sometimes share the legend of Joseph Keikiku finding a new way to play the instrument and creating the distinctive sound that we have come to love.
Now the part of the story that I find ironic is, that sometime in the 1920's the cowboy movie star Hoot Gibson brought Sol Ho'opi'i to Los Angeles to play in his band. That's the earliest record we have of the Hawaiian steel guitar being used in country music.
So the Steel Guitar came full circle... Cowboys to Islanders to Cowboys!
I am sure that some of you are much better versed in the exact history of our beloved Steel guitar, so please add your comments.
I have just one more observation to note:
Earlier Western Swing style steel (C6th A6th) sounds much closer to it's Hawaiian roots. While the African- American style of Blues slide guitar, and subsequent Dobro (resonator) Folk & Bluegrass lead more toward modern country, rockabilly and beyond.
Dom 
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2011 12:47 am
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Dom,
Quote: the steel guitar came full circle . . . Cowboys to Islanders to Cowboys!
The Mexican cowboys of the late 1800's had nothing to do with steel guitar.
They introduced the standard guitar to the Hawaiian's, and the Hawaiian's in turn, slacked some of the strings to create their own tuning(s). And that style of guitar playing is known today as "Slack Key".
Joseph Keikiku: Should be spelled "KEKUKU" |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 8 Aug 2011 1:32 am
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i had understood that stringed instruments were introduced to the islands went farther back in time than the 19th century
Portuguese & Spanish mariners/sailors brought/had them way before |
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Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2011 2:21 am
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Steel guitar came after.
Mexican cowboys or vaqueros arrived here in the islands in the 1830's. |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2011 10:36 am
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Hi Dom,
Joseph was born on the North Shore of Oahu (La'ie) in 1874. Yes, he is a real person. If you're ever here in Hawaii, the State Health Department has records of his birth, and of President Obama.  |
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Billy Tonnesen
From:
R.I.P., Buena Park, California
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Posted 8 Aug 2011 12:41 pm
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| IMHO, I think the Hawaiian Steel Guitar became popular in Western Bands when Gene Autry used the Steel just for fills on his early records. People on the Mainland started hearing Steel Guitars in many of the Island themed Movies in the 30's. Everyone liked the sound and many of the Western Bands added the Hawaiian Steel Guitar. To my ear I can hear the Hawiian influence in most all of Joaquin Mrphy's recordings. Jerry Byrd was a Hawiian player in Country Western Bands. |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 8 Aug 2011 6:00 pm
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An interesting example of cross-pollination during the early Swing era is a comparison of these two records: a 1936 song by Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys called Away Out There, which can be heard on various re-issue CDs including Columbia CK37468, and Walter Wailehua's record of Waimea Cowboy, Cord International's CD History of the Hawaiian Steel Guitar. The two songs are different, but they both end with yodel-like falsetto refrains which are too similar to be coincidence.
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Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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Darrell Urbien
From:
Echo Park, California
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Posted 8 Aug 2011 7:18 pm
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Is the "Sol was brought to LA to play in a cowboy band" part of the story true? That's the first I've heard about his passage over being "sponsored" - but I'm not really a Hoopii expert.
I know he was here in the '20s, and he was active in the movie crowd (at least until his conversion) but that's about it. |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 8 Aug 2011 8:17 pm
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Darrell, Sol Ho'opi'i was unknown in 1919 when he made his own way to California. According to the musicologist T. Malcom Rockwell, Sol stowed-away on the Sonoma, a trans-Pacific mail steamer. It appears Sol used a common tactic where he knew some of the cabin staff - in this case, the Decker brothers who were waiters.
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Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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James Nottage
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2011 9:23 am Hawaiian Steel and Gene Autry
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Certainly, Gene's incorporation of steel in the late twenties and early to mid 1930s Western music he did was important. His first recordings incorporating steel were earlier, done in New York and featured both Roy Speck and Johnny Marvin. These were all blues and not cowboy. He told me that musically it just made sense to use the same instrumentation in the cowboy work.
James Nottage
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Clinesmith S-8; Pettingill P6; Rick-Style Vintage 47 Amp |
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James Nottage
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2011 12:48 pm Gene Autry, cowboy music, steel guitar
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I am afraid I rushed to send the last message and not only misspelled Roy Smeck's last name, but mistakenly referenced the wrong Marvin. It was Frankie Marvin, not Johnny. Some time ago I posted information on Autry's steel players. This includes details on the blues recordings. You can refer to:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=191190&highlight=gene+autry
Many thanks, as always to Mr. Billy Tonnesen. He was there and knew them all. His insights are invaluable. Thank you, sir.
James Nottage
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Clinesmith S-8; Pettingill P6; Rick-Style Vintage 47 Amp |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 11 Aug 2011 7:06 am
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I wonder if Joseph was playing slack key guitar in some open tuning? That would make sense that the Steel bolt would then change the chords in a linear fashion.
So perhaps my original premise holds some truth. Cowboy guitar to Hawaiian slack key, Then Hawaiian guitar to Western Steel Guitar...
Dom
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 11 Aug 2011 6:48 pm
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| Dom Franco wrote: |
| I wonder if Joseph was playing slack key guitar in some open tuning? That would make sense that the Steel bolt would then change the chords in a linear fashion. |
I think that most experts agree that if left to their own devices with no formal training most people would tune a guitar to some sort of chord which sounded good to their ear. Perhaps just octaves and fifths but I really doubt that they would come up with standard tuning out of the blue.
I looked up slack key tunings in Wiki and it looks like one of the first used was G Major or Taro Patch (D-G-D-G-B-D). Funny thing is it happens to be a whole step down from what Orville Johnson uses to demonstrate the Lollar Supro repro pickup (E-A-E-A-C#-E which he calls an old dobro tuning):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOYaQU7CjO0
The lap steel is a Rogue EA-3 that Jason modified to accommodate the Supro pickup. He wrote up the project on his blog in a very interesting article:
http://www.lollarguitars.com/blog/2009/11/lap-steel-modification-for-lollar-supro-pickup/
Steve
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 11 Aug 2011 7:05 pm
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The G tunings are kinder to the neck of acoustic guitars, especially if the guitar has a spanish neck and a nut raiser. I suspect that, like early uke tunings, steel guitars were tuned higher to increase volume before electrical amplification, that is, in public performance.
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Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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