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Topic: PSG, success or failure the only choices |
Bo Legg
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Posted 19 Jul 2011 5:28 pm |
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Praise a person for being smart and they will choose an easy task over a harder challenge.
Praise, instead, a person for effort and they will choose harder, more meaningful tasks.
Praise a person just for participating, why would you think that necessary.
When I play poker with friends, yes we play for money but we could care less about who wins or losses its about just playing together and enjoying the game.
We don’t spend the whole week beating ourselves up because we are not working hard to try to play on the pro poker tour. We are just happy to meet again next week to enjoy our time playing the game together.
Why then do PSG players think someone who plays PSG for the fun of it is somehow a failure in that regard when there was never any anticipation nor desire to pursue it as a career.
Well you say playing poker for a little money one night a week is much different than playing PSG in a Bar.
In what way? |
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Emmett Roch
From:
Texas Hill Country
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Posted 19 Jul 2011 5:42 pm
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It's just like anything else - it's up to the individual.
If you're happy playing steel the way you do it, whether it's as a pro on the road or as a local citizen at the neighborhood beer joint, you are a successful steel player.
It's for you to decide, not someone else.
_________________
On Earth, as it is in Texas |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 19 Jul 2011 5:42 pm
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That's an interesting point, Bo.
I have spent my life playing music for my living. Since I was 13 I knew that was all I was going to do. I imagine, bar some debilitating illness (and possibly even then), I will continue doing that until I die.
For all of that, I have always believed that the universe cares more about what a person sitting by themselves playing music feels in their hearts than how many records they sell. The mere act of creating sounds that can effect a living creature is such a wondrous act that it precludes the possibility of failure, in my view.
Everybody has some kind of path they travel - some choose to make music for fun, some for money, and some for both (that's what I strive for). As long as we're all doing something that does more good than harm, it's all good.
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 20 Jul 2011 6:57 am
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There IS a difference between playing PSG in a bar on Friday nite and playing poker on Friday nite.
You're likely to make more money playing poker. |
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Sherman Willden
From:
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2011 9:00 am
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May all of your Presto, Big Slick, Ducks, and Broadways be winners
_________________
Sherman L. Willden
It is easy to play the steel guitar. Playing so that the audience finds it pleasing is the difficult act. |
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Nic du Toit
From:
Milnerton, Cape, South Africa
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Posted 20 Jul 2011 11:29 am
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Great post, Bo.
And Christopher, you summed it up very eloquently. It really represents my view to a 'T'.
_________________
1970 P/P Emmons D10 flatback 8x5, BJS Bar, J F picks, Peavey Session 500, Telonics pedal. Boss GX700 effects.
Skype : nidutoit |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 20 Jul 2011 12:12 pm
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| Bo posits that the steel community thinks amateurs are failures.The jury will probably be out for awhile on that one,but I do think it's safe to say that the players we'd most like to learn from generally tend to be professionals. |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 20 Jul 2011 12:55 pm
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But most of the steel community are amateurs, including myself, so, according to Bo's argument, we all think of ourselves as losers.
How ridiculous |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 20 Jul 2011 3:36 pm
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| Quote: |
But most of the steel community are amateurs, including myself, so, according to Bo's argument, we all think of ourselves as losers.
How ridiculous |
Indeed. |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2011 5:04 pm
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I can honestly say that nearly every REAL pro PSG player I've ever met was as nice and helpful as you could believe.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 20 Jul 2011 5:49 pm
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Barry and Richard I think most understood that the use of "PSG Player" was meant to narrow it down to one group of individuals and and doesn't necessarily imply every last one of us. And to prove my point let me say as one of the group I don't think of anyone as a loser.
I'll tell you what's ridicules is that I made a living Playing PSG before I knew how to play the PSG and now days it's hard even for a great player to make a living at it.
Can hardly wait to see how you nitpick this. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 21 Jul 2011 6:28 am
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| I never 'made a living' playing psg before I knew how to play it. You obviously ran in different (musical) circles than I did. |
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Theresa Galbraith
From:
Goodlettsville,Tn. USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2011 7:18 am
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Elton Smith
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2011 11:46 am
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It's hard to make a living doing anything ,these days.
_________________
Gibson Les Paul
Reverend Avenger
Paul Reed Smith
Fender Telecaster
MSA S10 Classic
ShoBud
Old Peavy Amps |
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Ron Page
From:
Penn Yan, NY USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2011 8:31 am
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It's all about managing expectations. Sometimes, your own and sometimes the expectations of others. We can't all be among the best in the world. That takes more of an investment than most of us are willing and able to make.
I played golf Saturday. I would have been happy to break 90, but I didn't. What we need in the steel guitar community is a handicap system. I'm a high handicapper, in any case.
_________________
HagFan
Emmons Lashley LeGrande II |
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Kenny Martin
From:
Chapin, S.C. USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2011 9:13 am
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Is it about how good you want to get or how bad you know you are?
Hey Bo, if you went to the normal poker game you and your buddies played all the time, and when you sat down to play, a professional world series champion poker player sat down in front of you, would your game change? Would you get up and leave or would you want to see if you've got the game to play?
However, if you are in a bar playin steel with your band buddies, having a great time and Paul Franklin walked in with Buddy Emmons and sat down at a table in front of you, would your playin change? Would you get up and leave or would you just play the best you could with the pro's sitting in front of you?
So i guess playin poker and steel could be a gamble either way if you end up in that position.
You are right, it's not about winning or losing but about playing at your best ability and or level that you enjoy and are happy with.
On the golf thing? My buddy that doesn't play golf well at all ask me how to improve his game. I told him to buy a tennis racket!
_________________
www.youtube.com/krmsr59 |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 25 Jul 2011 3:02 pm
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| Barry Blackwood wrote: |
| I never 'made a living' playing psg before I knew how to play it. You obviously ran in different (musical) circles than I did. |
Barry I have no way of knowing whether your circle was better than Bo's circle but I can say that most of the bands he played with played house jobs or on the road and they all did it for a living.
The PSG was Bo's second instrument but Bo knew enough about music, had the technique down and knew the instrument well enough that he could copy from recordings, adlib, use a few good musical tricks here and there to do the job but when he compared himself to the players on the recording (knowing he had a lot to learn)didn't feel he could call himself a PSG player.
Last edited by Stuart Legg on 26 Jul 2011 5:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 25 Jul 2011 4:43 pm
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| Kenny Martin wrote: |
Hey Bo, if you went to the normal poker game you and your buddies played all the time, and when you sat down to play, a professional world series champion poker player sat down in front of you, would your game change? Would you get up and leave or would you want to see if you've got the game to play?
However, if you are in a bar playin steel with your band buddies, having a great time and Paul Franklin walked in with Buddy Emmons and sat down at a table in front of you, would your playin change? Would you get up and leave or would you just play the best you could with the pro's sitting in front of you? |
This is all a question of simple logic.
If I was across the table from a championship poker player I would know exactly how I would play. I know I'm going to lose if we play very long but I know I'm going to win the first hand if we are playing Texas Holdem' I'll look at my cards and instantly go all in. He knows only a stupid amateur would not play a good hand out to try get the pot up so I must have pocket aces or close and no matter what he had he can't go all in with the chance of getting knock out on the first hand to a complete amateur idiot.
Then I would fake a heart attack and leave in a ambulance with my money and that would make me the winner.
If Buddy and Paul were in a bar where I was playing. I would simply sneak off and pull the fire alarm and while we're all outside I would tell Buddy how I was just getting ready to light into my hot version of Boot Hill Drag and tell Paul how I could sound exactly like I had a Franklin lever without having a Franklin lever. Then when they discovered it was a false alarm and started back in I could fake my heart attack again.
Stuart are you saying I painted houses and worked on a road crew? |
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Tommy White
From:
Nashville
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Posted 25 Jul 2011 8:04 pm
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Kenny?
Paul Franklin, Buddy Emmons. Well,... so much for where the rest of us stand in your ratings and previous posts.
Of course a true professional would play to the best of one's ability. |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2011 8:46 pm
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Tommy, you knows where you stand with me and I am sure many others also place you right at the top with the best. My take on this subject is that to the bands I play with I am the best steel player they have. I am doing the job that no one else is doing. I made a choice 50 years ago to not pursue a career as a steel guitar player. I have played many steel shows and have been exposed to some players who also made that same choice that can PLAY. I don't think the opposite of pro is amateur in all cases. I have found that a player who has played for a name singer is looked upon as superior to one who has not. I think that is a ludicrous assumption but that is how it is.
Jerry
Last edited by Jerry Roller on 26 Jul 2011 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 26 Jul 2011 6:29 am
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I have found that a player who has played for a name singer is looked upon as superior to one who has not. I think that is a ludicrous but that is how it is.
Jerry |
Spot on, Jerry, and nowhere is this more true than in L.A. |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 26 Jul 2011 7:57 am
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Jerry and Barry-
Someone who hires a professional to do work generally is focussed on getting the work under way as soon as possible.Selecting a steel player for a project could be done through exhaustive auditioning of each candidate,or it could be done by looking up the players who get called to do sessions for name artists.Time is money,and the second way is much more cost-effective than the first,if you're thinking about creating something to sell at a profit without going broke on production.
All that's at some distance from Bo's original thesis,which was(I think)that the steel community doesn't respect the amateur player.I have to say I'm really not on board with that,and I suspect a good many non-pro players might find themselve a little provoked by such a thesis. |
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Kenny Martin
From:
Chapin, S.C. USA
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Posted 26 Jul 2011 9:30 am
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Now Mr. White, you already know that i have stated in previous posts and in person to you, that you are the "World's #1 Steel Player" to me! 
If you sat down in front of me i would take Bo's option of pulling the fire alarm!
Nah, the way i am, i would sit right there good or bad and do my best to at least have one lick you wanted to hear!
I would love to have you Mr. White in front of me one time in my life because it would bring out the best in me with the best in front of me! 
Now that's what i call playin for fun and not being a failure! 
Ya can't get mad at me my friend! 
_________________
www.youtube.com/krmsr59 |
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Kenny Martin
From:
Chapin, S.C. USA
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Posted 26 Jul 2011 9:39 am
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Actually i would love to sit beside you Tommy and see just how long i could hang with you as a non-pro ametuer as they say!
It would be an experience and joy of a life time as a for say "Non-pro" but if you smoked me, would i be considered a failure? 
Nah, i would be considered very lucky to have had the chance!
Let me really get the steel world rawled up and say, i believe i could hang in there a little while! I'm 51 been playin since i was around 9 or 10 so i should be able to play something good!
Of course as a "Non-pro" that isn't considered to be a failure! 
_________________
www.youtube.com/krmsr59 |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 26 Jul 2011 12:45 pm
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| Quote: |
| Selecting a steel player for a project could be done through exhaustive auditioning of each candidate,or it could be done by looking up the players who get called to do sessions for name artists. |
Dave, maybe I'm missing the point, but if one is looking up 'name' session players to play in their band, I think they're in for a disappointment... |
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