How many of you read standard notation?

Igor Fiksman · From: Georgia, USA

Listening to some of Mike Perlowin's music got me wondering. How many of you read standard notation on PSG? I can read, even sight read some music for standard guitar, I can also glance at the fretboard and tell you in a hurry what note is on every fret on every string, but on PSG that seems like an insurmountable task. 10-12 strings plus all of the endless changes, it's a lot to process. Do pro's know exactly what notes are on say fret 21 with a pair of pedals down and a couple of levers engaged without thinking for a while or plucking the strings to identify by ear?
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Ethan Shaw · From: Texas, USA

I do that a lot. I use it to learn horn and organ transcriptions, and jazz standard heads. I always think of where the notes are relative to the root position (i.e. open or A&B pedals) I'm in. It's a lot of theory, but it's good for the brain!

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

But, if you take your (2) F#'s (2) E's (2) G#'s & (2) B's away, how many strings does that leave, to learn open positions. I think 6 Since 8 + 2 = 10 - (4) = 6 different strings out of the 10 total. That is, if it's a 10 string steel.

And I believe everyone knows their changes whether drops or raises.

So all in all, it's about the same, 6 string with finger positions, or 10 strings with pedal positions.

Just my thoughts on it. Smile

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I do, but slowly. The idea of "sight-reading" on steel seems impossible, but if you can "sight-sing" it and you know where you're going to be on a steel to play a particular melody... well, I can see how it's supposed to work. Laughing

Earnest Bovine (Doug Livingston) is performing a few of Bach's Sonatas & Partitas for solo violin and I'm pretty sure he didn't lift them off an Earnest Tubbs record. I can read sort-of OK on standard guitar and I find that working on the exact same piece on guitar and steel reinforces the idea of playing music, not an instrument. There's a lovely little mandolin that sits in the corner and glares at me.

Because of the history of steel guitar, most players aren't expected to read, and "head" arrangements are still the norm - but reading can't hurt. There's another thread about the non-country steel, and it's my opinion that people are sometimes calling for atmospheric steel instead of the synthesizer. Keyboard players most certainly can read, and if you want to take their jobs away, well.... And when people say it's somehow impossible because "it can play the same note five different ways!" Ummm, in every case, play it the easiest way possible. You only need ONE of 'em, isn't it nice to have spares.

Igor Fiksman · From: Georgia, USA

I guess on the flipside of this coin, are there pieces of music composed specificaly for pedal steel and written in traditional chart format? If so, do composers understand the chordal possibilities or are these mostly single or two note lines as for violins or individual horns. "Concerto for E9 pedal steel guitar and orchestra" has a certain ring to it.
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Reading is fundamental. I can read fake book parts, single note lines with chord names above them. I'm not real great at it, but I generally have it right by the 3rd or 4th time through.

Let's see how long this topic can last without quoting Chet Atkins. Laughing

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Billy Tonnesen · From: R.I.P., Buena Park, California

Bob:
Wasn't Chet the one when asked if he could read music, replied: "Not Enough To Hurt My Playing" !

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I’ve mentioned this several times before, but for those who don’t already know, I’ve written an article an how to read music on the E9 neck, which I will send for free to anybody who requests it. (Please send requests via E-mail and not a private message.)

My system is not easy, and requires a lot of study and memorization, but it does work. Nothing about the steel is easy, including reading music. But it's not impossible. It can be done, and my article shows you how to do it.
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Mike Delaney · From: Fort Madison, IA

I agree with b0b-reading is fundamental, if for no other reason than a form of communication.

Steel isn't my primary axe, rather something I do for fun. To sight read on it would be a bit difficult, but probably because I haven't done it often. I find myself hearing the music in my head after looking the chart over, then adapting it to the steel. Sort of a quick memorization.

Great idea to learn the rudiments of reading though, makes it much easier to study theory, etc.

Mike

Dickie Whitley · Posted 11 Jul 2011 2:17 am

I agree with b0b and I learned using Mike Perlowin's book and supplement. I can't do it fast or read without pausing, but I get the job done in my own time. I think it a great ability to have and would highly suggest learning to do so. My 2 cents FWIW.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Here's a link to the book, which is available wherever Mel Bay Publications are sold. (I'm not a licensed retailer and can't sell them myself.)

http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?ProductID=98207&category=&Heading=Theory%2C%2BCompositio&catID=&head1=&head2=&sub=&sub1=&author=&mode=&q=&r=&s=&next=

The steel guitar supplement, which includes the article I mentioned earlier, is free.

The article can be studied by itself. The rest of the supplement explains how the concepts in the book relate to what the pedals do, and contains tabbed out examples of material from the book. It's is pretty useless by itself.
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John De Maille · From: On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.

Unfortunately, I never took reading and learning music, seriously, when I was young. Funny, because I've played music almost all of my life. I even supplemented my income for over 20 yrs doing it. Now, at age 62, I wish I had done so, but, a form of dyslexia has set in and trying to comprehend it is a daunting task. I even have trouble some times with "tab", but, never with chord charts. I've been lucky to a point, though. If I can hear it, I can play it, usually. I envy people, who, can read music and apply it to their instrument. I wish I had never been so stupid, when, I was younger.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Yeah, me too, John. I remember my very first pedal steel lesson, with Scotty, back in about 1971. He asked me, right at the beginning, "Do you want to learn to play from standard notation, or from tab? Tab will get you going faster, but standard notation will take you farther." He was right to present it to me that way, but being about 19 years old and eager to sound like Rusty Young as soon as possible, I wanted to get started FAST, so I picked tab. Sad

p.s. Yeah, I can read tab but not enough to hurt my playing...
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

When I write tab, I always include the notation.
This way, after a while, you can see the relationship between the notation and what you are playing.
As has been stated above, playing the pedal steel off of standard notation is quite difficult because of all the different locations for the various chords.
When I play non-pedal steel, I can play off of standard notation.

Steve Gorman · From: Gilroy California

Pardon me for this, but sightreading notation for pedal steel guitar seems impossibly difficult, and definitely the hard way to go about it.

With all the different tunings, pedal and knee changes, bar slants, etc. it just seems ridiculous to me to ignore TAB. I agree with Igor's original statement there.

Reading music for guitar, mandolin, piano, etc is highly recommended and those who take the time and effort to learn how are glad they did, myself included. (sorry Chet) But I have not tried making the stretch to learn notation for the pedal steel guitar - just doesn't seem worth it.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Guitar music often has "hints" to tell which string to use. I mark up sheet music with "hints" for the fret number and sometimes the pedal letter names. So above the staff you might see 6AF for example if that's the position that I like for a chord or phrase.

One problem with tab is that it's too big. I can write twice as much music in the same space with standard notation, and convey timing information too.
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Bob Simons · From: Kansas City, Mo, USA

I can sight read piano and guitar, but Pedal Steel takes too much strategy for me...

The most useful transcriptions I've found are those in Scotty's book that include tab and notation. I find tab frustrating and lacking too much information. With the assistance of standard notation I can quickly understand the chordal movement, phrasing and timing.
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David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

What b0b said (not what Bob said): if you want to play the best music of your or any other era, it's all there on paper - not tab. And it doesn't tell you which fret or string, but you only need to get the melody under your fingers once, and then you can start to figure other ways to play it. "The Classical Fake Book V.2" is a big favorite of mine, and no, no orchestra is knocking on my door - but I never thought pedal steel was exactly a road to riches, anyway. Laughing

And reading music is just like any other reading, if you take the time to rewrite it yourself, a melody with all the position notes you can muster, placed under the chords as you see 'em - you'll remember it much, much better.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Steve Gorman · From: Gilroy California

Mike, there are a couple of points I would like to try to clarify:

I did not say that reading music isn't important, I believe, as you do, that it is the international standard written language of music. Like most on this list, I am a multi instrumentalist, my instruments being guitar, mandolin, bass, pedal steel, and a little piano. I do read music, quite a bit, my library is full of music books. The ability to read has opened so many musical doors for me, I don't need convincing of the value of reading.

That said, I also agree that there are bazillions of great tunes out there to be learned and arranged for pedal steel. This is something I sometimes enjoy doing, my usual method is to get a recorded version, (YouTube is a favorite way) figure out the chords and melody. I have used fake books to get chord progressions and tricky melody parts, but to me this is not really reading music. Sometimes I will work things out on another instrument and then apply it to the steel. For me anyway, this is so much easier and more effective than trying to apply the written notes to the pedal steel guitar.

I've heard some of your tracks and read your posts here, and I think what you are doing with classical music and steel guitar is fantastic. You are taking the steel in a direction that few have done, and it is good for the future of the instrument. And I don't know of a better way to work with the classics, than by reading the notes.

RE; your violinist friend, who does not respect the steel guitar - I have encountered that also, not only with steel but also with six string guitar. That is closed minded snobbery, an inability to understand or appreciate the complexity and beauty of this instrument we play.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Steve: if you can read music on other instruments, then I imagine that your main problem is that you don't know where the notes are on your steel guitar. Reading music while playing steel is no different from reading while playing other instruments, once you know where the notes are.
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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Steve, I'm glad you see the value in learning how to read music. Unfortunately, there are many players who don't, and who actively resist the idea.

Frankly, I fail to understand why any musician, regardless of what instrument they play, would not want to learn how. It's not like learning how to read will make you forget how to play by ear.

Reading on the steel, using the pedals, is challenging. But it can be done, and my article shows you how. And again, I'm giving it away for free.

Anybody who wants it, just send me an E-mail, and I'll send you the file.
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Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

It's no different from other fretted instruments, Jim. On guitar, you have to decide which string to play C on, and which finger to play it with. If you can read music on guitar (which is the instrument I learned on), reading for steel isn't such a stretch.

Sometimes I think steel players are looking for excuses not to read. Oh, it's so complicated! It's too hard! Sorry, I don't buy it.

If a song's in Bb, start at the 6th fret. If it's going higher or lower than what you have there, go up or down a position. This isn't rocket science. It's just notes on a page.
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