What lap tuning is most like Emmons pedal setup?

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

About to start learning pedal steel....and would like to have one of my 8-string lap steels tuned such that I could play many of the same licks, both for learning and for interchangeability for jams, really small gigs, etc..

Since there ain't no pedals, that means the open tunings won't match....I'd have to have a few strings that did what the pedals do, right? Or do I just use slants for that?

My lap steels are now all high-G C6....which E tuning should I use to one?

Thanks!

(note-this is cross-posted to the pedal forum, I'm not sure where it should go!)

Ryan Barwin · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

I'd use E13...low to high: B D E G# B C# E G#, or B D F# G# B C# E G#.
_________________
www.pedalsteel.ca

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Ryan-
Thanks!

Those sound about right....what would be the tradeoff of having only one root note up high to get the 9th, or of not having the 9th to get the root? Which would be more useful/flexible in general?

Mike Neer · From: NJ

I think you should stick with C6 on the lap steel. Eventually you will want to investigate C6 on pedal steel and you can flow right into it. The E9 sounds are really unique to that instrument. I can get some things kind of close with the old E9 tuning I use, but note the emphasis on kind of.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Mike-
Thanks for the input - your blog helped me think about a lot of this stuff...

I would keep one lap steel in C6, but I'd like one in something that would help me learn the E9 that the pedal steel will be in....the major use will be in a country rock band, so E9 makes sense for that, and an E lap would also be good for those really tiny gigs....someday, maybe a double neck pedal or universal, but for now.....

So I'm looking for the E tuning on 8-string that will help me learn E9 on pedal...

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Well, I would suggest this tuning:

G#
E
B
G#
F#
E
D
B

That's pretty much what you get on a pedal steel when the pedals are not engaged, minus the chromatic strings.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links

Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

I would dump the low B and add a C# as the 3rd string - the A pedal is the most used on a psg and you will really hate not having that C#.
Or you could add a high D# if you didn't want to mess up your grips - still lose the low B. I had an old fender with shot tuners and played it as a 7 string - never missed that low B.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Thanks again to all of you (for making my head spin).
For learning purposes - i.e., teaching my hands the grips - the suggestion of using the middle 8 strings of a PSG might fly best - sort of like how a 6 string lap compares to an 8 string in C6 (middle 6 strings)....

So the only flaws would be:
-not having the low B or the high F#, probably not a big deal, have to leave something out!
-not having anything that represents what the tuning is with pedals or knees activated (there was that idea of adding the C#, which messes up the grips but adds the note...)

Hmmm.....

Ryan Barwin · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

The advantage to the low F# string (rather than the E) is the D root...D F# A (with a string pull behind the bar to do what the B pedal on E9 pedal steel would do).

Mike's right in that you don't need the C# string because it's easy enough to pull behind the bar...as long as you just want to get the feel for playing pedal steel later...but if you'd lose a lot of the great non-pedal steel swing-type sounds without the C# string. I also strongly recommend against losing the low B string, as I think it's very important to the tuning, especially on pedal steel.

So if I were you, I'd use B D E G# B C# E G# and toggle between the E and F# on the 6th string. It won't be that hard getting used to the different grips when you get rid of the C# and add the F# when you're playing pedal steel.

Another advantage is that you can easily tune the non-pedal steel to high C6 tuning with those string gauges...A C E G A C E G.
_________________
www.pedalsteel.ca

John Allison · From: Austin, Texas, USA

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

John -
Did you mean to have the B and C# in that order?
i.e. G# E B C# G# F#D B vs>G# E C# B G# F# D B

and by the way, I'm literally "heading toward pedal steel" - I'm on my way to pick up the Rains SD-10 I just bought....so the lap steel version will be for practicing when I'm not home, or whatever....no excuse not to practice even if I'm not sitting behind the pedal steel...

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

I have this on 3 of my 12-string non-pedal guitars:
F#
D#
G#
E
C#
B
A
G#
F#
E
C#
B
I don't think of it as being able to play the "licks", I think of it as having a lot of possibilities near by, with both major and minor chords. What you'll discover on E9 pedal is that minors substitute for dominant 7 chords when you're on chord runs. Here, they're all over the place, as well as the traditional I, IV and V. But this is not a "friendly" tuning.

John Allison · From: Austin, Texas, USA

Joseph Barcus · From: Volga West Virginia

I use F#,G#,E,C#,B,G#,E,C#,A,E on my back neck. I am David Churchs steel player and if you know who he is, then you will know its 80% Hank Sr. now to keep from a bar tilt I use pedal 6 on my guitar to raise the 2nd string 1/2 tone and lower the 6th 1/2 tone. thats about the only pedal I use while playing the Hank thing and it matches the recordings of the Don Helms sound. think of it as E6th 9, 9 being the F# thats on the first string, makes for chromatic runs
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvuH7H8BajODaL_wy3_HSJQ

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

Hi Steve
I don't think you would be doing yourself any favours by trying to learn pedal steel on a lap steel. The number of strings and string spacing is going to be different, and E9 pedal steel is mostly about the pedals and levers. Consider that the high "E" string has four different notes available, D#,E,F,F#, which do you choose? The 2nd string has three, D#,D,C#....and so on.
Sounds that need advanced technique on a lap steel, string pulls and bar slants, can be done in the first two minutes on the pedal steel.
Having said that, I'd go with this tuning on an eight string lap steel. Low to high...B D Eb F# G# B Eb F#. Corresponds, more or less, to an E9th pedal steel with the E's lowered a half tone. I spend a lot of time there...Jerry

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Jerry-
I think you hit the key thing here.....the learning is as much about the pedals and levers as it is about the sounds they make.

I truly appreciate all of the advice and comments form the crew here....and what I've decided to do is just go with a USEFUL E9 (E13) on the lap, and not worry so much about the mechanics - I'll get that from the pedal steel itself. The lap will just give me an E tuning to complement the C6 on my other lap steel...which will certainly help me move from C6 to E9 on the pedal steel.

Thanks again to all of you!
-Steve
G# E C# B G# E D B

Forum Index > Steel Without Pedals		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic