Help me design a new non-pedal console steel..

Hal Braun · From: Eustis, Florida, USA

Or a fools quest?

Ok.. I recognize there is a lot of love for old Fenders, Gibsons, Rickenbachers console steels.. that said, almost all I have seen have some issues, quirks, etc.

In the pedal steel world, it appears that designs have improved pretty continuously, and I would like to think that would not be too far a stretch to end up with a decent sounding, playing, light weight, double neck 8 string non pedal steel based on some of these improvements..

So, assuming I can talk Bill Rudolph (of Williams pedal steel guitar mfg fame) here in Minnesota to make me one.. what would be the design parameters?

I am envisioning the body and necks like his current pedal steels, with broader string spacing.. I would want the head stock to have a straight line to the bridge..

Questions would be.. what scale length? I was thinking between that 24 - 25 inch length to use more modern string gauges..

What string spacing?

I was thinking a "through the body" string mounting like a telecaster then over a round bar (like a stringmaster) bridge.. or maybe a milled tail piece that gives the height to go over the pickups.. other ideas?

Pickups.. single coils (p90'ish from Lollar?) or humbucker with coil taps?

Other thoughts? Give it up?

Thanks for your input!

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

Scale length: I wouldn't go longer than abour 23-24", unless you play without slants; slants are harder to play on longer scaled LSs.

String spacing is really a matter of preference - personally, I like something like 10mm (slightly mire than 3/8") at the bridge end - unless you're coming from pedal steel, anything narrower will feel cramped, anything much wider will make an 8-string look like a harp (a real one, not a mouth harp...)
Personally I also like a relatively straight, non-tapered string spread - same distance between strings at both the nut and the bridge; again, this seems to make slants easier...

Pickups: Really depends on what music you want to play - unless you're playing blues/rock with dirty, raunchy overdrive tones, I wouldn't recommend a humbucker (but then, I prefer the clarity and snap of single coils 99% of the time on "regular" guitars, too).
Personally, I like Stringmaster-types best, for their clean, clear, bright tone, I'd use a pair of those (incidentially, I really like an aded neck pickup, even though a lot of classic LS didn't have them; great for getting warmer fuller tones that you can't get from the bridge PU, not even with a turned-down tone pot).
I've also used a P90 in a lap steel, great tone, too, warmer, fuller, a bit raunchier than a Stringmaster-type.
I think a Charlie Christian-type (as sold by Lollar and by www.vintagevibeguitars.com ) would also make a great LS pickup - the fullness and warmth of a P90 coupled with the clarity of a Fender-type PU.
Lollar also offers a repro of the old Valco/Supro string-thru pickup, no expereince with that, but I do ahve his Chicago Steel pickup in one of my LSs, that one is also supposed to do the SUpro tone - all I can say: not for the timid, very "in-your-face" tone!

Hal Braun · From: Eustis, Florida, USA

Thanks Roman, good point re. string length and slants! I had a forum friend send me a picture of a guitar he had made.. it started as a D-8 but he converted to a SD -8 that turns out is exactly what I had pictured in my mind.. I agree with you on string spacing. I have a Chandler 8 string that is just a hair under 3/8" at the bridge and is a pretty straight pull to the nut.

My regular guitars are Gibsons, so have that big humbucker sound.. but I play the neck way more than the bridge.. My Rickenbacher with the 1 1/2 horseshoe is actually the tone I would like to shoot for.. and it reminds me a lot of that big P90 kind of sound.. Of course the original Sho Bud single coils also sound really good to my ear too. I guess if I could pick a "universal" mounting it would not be difficult to go back and forth.. or pick a nice single coil for the C6 "country" neck and a humbucker for the E13 "rock and blues" neck!

Thanks for the feedback!

PS Chris.. hope you dont mind me showing off this beauty! If you do, let me know and I will take it down..

S.M. Johnson · From: Oregon, USA

Is it your desire to revolutionize the guitar industry or.........;Not wanting to create a conflict here........)

Wouldn't one expect to have a design SOLUTION in mind before building a 'new' next generation guitar? WHAT is it, that you're desiring to improve upon? I think a lot of us are naturally curious.

Or is it merely 'the challenge' of doing it that has captured your imagination and enthusiasm? Creativity is a great thing and many of us just don'thave it.

Many of the single neck models currently on the market look quite similar, seem to offer little or nothing extra for the player except a choice in head
stock design.

Good Luck to you on your dream endeavor! I know I'll be most anxious to follow your design preferences.

Hal Braun · From: Eustis, Florida, USA

All good questions..

No, not looking to revolutionize anything.. just trying to find the guitar that fits me. After going through numerous "vintage" consoles.. to me, they all had some shortcomings (mostly having to do with age and wear) have impossible to find parts.. and I am not handy enough like some of our members to recreate pieces. Some of them are small things, like filling screw holes with hardwood toothpicks to provide purchase for screws, rewinding a pickup, etc. Others have less than optimal bridges, string height, stiff or older design tuners etc.

And dont get me wrong.. if I saw a really good condition stringmaster (especially a D eight) I might be all over it.. but those good vintage instruments are getting harder to find and more expensive.

I am learning from forum members that some manufacturers may already be doing what I had in mind (see the Jackson above) which I was unaware of and will be calling Jackson on Monday, as well as chatting with Bill at Williams.

So it may be the modern console non pedal steel that I am looking for is already out there.. and I just have to find it! As far as having a design solution.. I am not a engineer, and would need the input from people like yourself with WAY more experience to make suggestions.. and most likely the builder I find will have that input as well.

Improvements? Only in newer materials, light weight, replaceable common parts, even nice new tuners with higher gear ratios, which are not "design" improvements per se.. but "ease of use" improvements.

Thanks for the thoughts!

Hal Braun · From: Eustis, Florida, USA

Well.. after a lot of consideration, Williams Guitar is going to be building me a D-8 non pedal steel..

It will be based on their current D-10 body, 24.25 inch scale length. 3/8" string spacing at the bridge, 11/32" at the nut.

End pieces milled like their current pedal steel, but without cutouts for changer. 10 string key head without the 1 and 10 tuners, no roller nut.. instead milled to get a "nut".. same on bridge.

Curly maple body, inlays on body and wood necks, honey amber finish, leg extensions so I can play standing or sitting.

Bill Lawrence 705 reissue pickups

Should be done by end of July! Will report back, but Bill and I both think it will be pretty darn hot!

Philip Bender · From: Palmetto FL USA (deceased)

Hey Hal,
This past spring I finished a dbl 10 for Don Fullmer, and in trying to lighten a 44 pound monster we came up with a great appearance item. We cut the out side neck down, and replaced the wood with 2 layers of acrylic with the edges and holes polished. We worked on it for about 60 days off and on, but never in a real good lighting set up.When we took it outside, the effect is tremendous. Looking at the tuners, you can see layer upon layer of reflections down in the surface. The guitar was painted white pearl, and fret boards are silver with abalone markers. wish you could see it, I will try to get some pics soon.
Phil

Bob Russell · From: Virginia, USA

Chris Watkins · From: Eastern North Carolina

Hal, I almost sold this guitar, Im glad I decided to keep It, Its one of a kind, (just got too many, or at least the wife thinks so Whoa!

)

Hal Braun · From: Eustis, Florida, USA

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