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Topic: Dialing in more "vintage Shobud-esque" tone |
Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2011 5:37 pm |
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I know this topic is kind of taboo, and maybe even blasphemous to some, but I am absolutely in LOVE with the vintage shobud sound, yet I also really appreciate the reliability, variability, and unique sound of my modern PSG. I really can't afford to go out and buy a 2nd steel just for the sake of variation, so I was curious if anyone has had any success emulating a more "shobud-esque" sound with the use of amp settings, effects processors, other equipment, or even technique adjustments. Don't get me wrong, I don't expect any simple adjustment to turn my modern PSG into a tone machine like the shobuds of the 70's, but if I could even get close, I could get more of the vintage sound when I want it, and keep the modern sound when I don't.
My current guitar is a lacquer body all pull S-10 with humbucker pickups, a stainless steel bar and nickel-wound strings. As for electronics I have at my immediate disposal, I'm using a all-tube Carvin Vintage 16 12" amp and a RP150 Digitech processor. Don't know if it matters, but I've also got a L10K Goodrich VP.
As far as what I exactly I mean by vintage shobud sound, below are a few easy to find examples that come to mind that seem to have that classic "vintage shobud" sound. Of course I realize that the expertise of the player behind the steel and even the recording quality has a lot to do with tone, and each of these clips are different in many ways, but I am hearing something consistent in all of these clips that I associate with vintage shobuds that I can't seem to pin-point myself, and hope to get some help from the community to figure out what it is and maybe even some tips on how to try and emulate it!
Thanks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoUTvvpciLM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma2mT2xPWYA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXVQbbGMZY4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj6Vne1-HJE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkinJAzffE4
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Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings.
Last edited by Benjamin Jayne on 25 Jun 2011 9:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2011 5:54 pm
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http://picosong.com/LYH/
Here was my first attempt a few months ago of playing the Daniel Lanois song with some help from the digitech RP150, plugged in direct to the computer. I've improved my technique since then, changed strings and procured a tube amp, but this is the only decent recording I have to exemplify a starting point. I don't think I could convince anyone this was played on a vintage shobud. What am I missing (besides years of practice?  )
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Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings. |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2011 7:30 pm
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| An analogy: A Fender sounds like a Fender. A Gibson sounds like a Gibson. If you want the Sho-Bud sound, I recommend you acquire a Sho-Bud. JMO |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 25 Jun 2011 8:25 pm
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| Jim Bob Sedgwick wrote: |
| An analogy: A Fender sounds like a Fender. A Gibson sounds like a Gibson. If you want the Sho-Bud sound, I recommend you acquire a Sho-Bud. JMO |
or a Jackson.
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Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2011 9:16 pm
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Believe me, if my budget allowed it, I'd pick up the next pro-1 listed here on the forum, but that's just not in the cards for me right now. There's really nothing I can do to even "approach" the vintage sound without a vintage instrument? 
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Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 25 Jun 2011 10:26 pm
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Benjamin,
You are closer than you think to getting the sound you are seeking. Get rid of the FX boxes. They will only get in the way. Don't worry about the guitar. It is already very close. To my ear the key for you will be in having a relaxed left hand and the proper attitude in your picking. Listen more to the players/sounds you love and transcribe them as best you can. Practice slowly and with intelligence. If you can put in a few hours a day you will be where you want to be within a year or less. Then whole new batches of problems will show up !
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Bob |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 25 Jun 2011 10:31 pm
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| Quote: |
| I don't think I could convince anyone this was played on a vintage shobud. |
To be honest you would have no problem convincing almost everybody that your guitar was a vintage bud.
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Bob |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 26 Jun 2011 4:40 am
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| Bob's right. There is nothing wrong with your tone. It's fine. Sounds good to me. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2011 5:00 am
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| Kevin Hatton wrote: |
| Bob's right. There is nothing wrong with your tone. It's fine. Sounds good to me. |
Indeed.
Want to get a tad closer???... take the humbucker off, and get a Wallace Truetone single coil, wound to early Sho bud specs... You are already in the zone, the pickup will put you right where you want to be, but you sound pretty close already, and personally I'd be happy with it, and save the money... bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 26 Jun 2011 6:27 am
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| After listening to your clip, I agree with Bob, Kevin, and Bob - time spent focusing on practice will probably do more good than time spent focusing on equipment. There's nothing wrong with the sound of your equipment. If the guitar plays and feels good, you should be able to get what you want from it. My opinion. |
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Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2011 7:11 am
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Thanks again, folks. After giving this a lot of thought, I think you're all really on to something here. There's no doubt I need more practice, and practice DOES improve one's sound. I've actually noticed a ton of improvement since making that clip a few months back to the point that I was a bit embarrassed to put it up here, whereas when I made it a few months back, I felt it was the best I could do; but I'm really glad I did post it, as your feedback is extremely helpful. I like the idea of focusing on the technique of those I enjoy to listen to and trying to emulate that rather than focus on their instrument's inherent tone. It seems a bit less abstract and it feels good to embrace my own instrument's uniqueness. Even though it's a ton of work, a lot of good will come out of improving my technique regardless, whereas purchasing new equipment or spending a ton of time messing with FX boxes will more than likely waste precious practice time!
It's also really nice to hear from another steel player (let a lone a few) that the tone I have is ok, and the sound I'm looking for is attainable. I've never heard anyone else play my instrument, and I've really never spent a lot of quality time with a vintage 'bud, so I think a lot of what's happening is in my head. The truth is, I've got a beautiful, well made, easy to play instrument that has a lot going for it. What needs to change is my level of expertise, and my attitude towards creating the sound I want with my hands, not electronics.
Thanks again!
_________________
Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings. |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2011 7:39 am
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Benjamin, You are very close to the sound of a Sho-Bud. Just a thought... Try cutting the highs on your amp just a little bit, move your right hand very close to the pickup and I think you'll come very close to the sound in your head. BTW, your tone is very good as is.  |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2011 10:44 am
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| I like your tone too Benjamin and the others have given some really good advice. |
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Benjamin Jayne
From:
Orange County California, USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2011 6:20 pm
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| Jim Bob Sedgwick wrote: |
| Benjamin, You are very close to the sound of a Sho-Bud. Just a thought... Try cutting the highs on your amp just a little bit, move your right hand very close to the pickup and I think you'll come very close to the sound in your head. BTW, your tone is very good as is. |
This was really great advice, thanks Jim Bob. I tried it out today, and have already found by turning down the treble, I could pick the strings with more force and nearer to the pickup without getting that "shrill" sound I had been trying to avoid in the past. Seems so simple, but it really produces a brighter, yet fuller sound with better sustain, since I'm picking the strings harder, and the pickup is probably getting more volume as well. It will take some practice to get used to this, especially faster runs, but I do prefer the quality of the sound with this right hand technique.
It's going to take some time to master keeping my left arm and hand relaxed too, but I agree that's something else I need to work on. It should improve my vibrato as well. Both of these techniques seem to be things you have to deliberately practice to gain the necessary level of awareness and control, but I'm up for the challenge. I'm just glad to have discovered that it's more in my hands than in the guitar-that really is a blessing considering I love my guitar and can't afford a 2nd!
And thanks again for all the validating posts about the quality of my tone-that really helps to build some necessary confidence as a beginner!
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Lamar S-10, Goodrich L10K VP, Carvin Vintage 16 all-tube amp, John Pearse Cryogenic steel tone bar, John Pearse strings. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2011 3:41 am
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| The tone of a steel seems to change drastically in relation to whatever else is it around it, too. To the point where a tone perceived as "ducky" in a band setting might sound awfully thin as a stand-alone solo tone, and a good solo tone would be mushing all over the bass player's territory if you took those exact same settings out of the living room. This pertains to any instrument that's amplified, and is the cause of much heartache, terror, anguish, and equipment sales. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 27 Jun 2011 7:23 am
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I dial my Sarno Freeloader at about 8 to get more of a Sho-Bud kind of tone. When I played a Sierra, I would change pickups between songs for those kinds of tone shifts. The Freeloader seems to do the same thing - it changes the overall response curve.
I'm using a very low impedance TrueTone pickup. The Freeloader setting would be different with a different pickup, but it always seems to be capable of changing the tone in the direction that I want to go for a given song. I set my amp for the room, and then use the Freeloader as my tone control for each song as needed.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 27 Jun 2011 5:01 pm
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I think most of that old sho-bud tone was also alot to do with the fender amps they used back then, i suppose go for a bright trebly sound with low mids and keep the bass down low... You dont need a sho-bud to relic that sound, no more than you need a strat to sound like hendrix, just play like them if you can and dial in their tones!
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A.K.A Chappy. |
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Joerg Hennig
From:
Bavaria, Germany
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Posted 28 Jun 2011 11:42 am
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| I understand many players, especially Sho-Bud aficionados, still use Fender amps today! |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2011 1:19 pm
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I see you live in California, so come over and borrow a Permanent and a Compactra or a Christmas Tree and see if that changes your tone.
If you put a city in your identification, you may get invitations from other players to come over and demo equipment.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Tim Heidner
From:
Groves, TX
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Posted 28 Jun 2011 5:03 pm
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Can you get a sho-bud type tone with an Alumitone? I'm not happy with my sound at all, I need more twang but I don't want a bunch of hum, either. I'm playing a Mullen pre RP with Bill Lawrence 710's in it. Using either a Session 400 that I can't seem to get an acceptable tone with or my Reeves Custom 100 Hiwatt clone.
I've heard Brad Paisley's steel player uses 710's and he sounds pretty great, but he probably has access to a lot more toys than I do... |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2011 7:30 pm
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If you're going for the "Fender sound", a silverface twin 135, that has been voiced for steel guitars is nice. Another good one is the Evans 500 and I second Chris' suggestion of a Christmas Tree. Lanois tends to use an over-driven Vox AC-30 although it looks like he's playing through a Fender in that clip. Black Widow speakers are good although I prefer the Electro Voice EVM 15L.
I just listened to your clip and, if anything, you're missing the sound of "paper flapping", that being amplifier and speaker. |
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Brett Day
From:
Pickens, SC
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Posted 28 Jun 2011 8:16 pm
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| Tim Heidner wrote: |
Can you get a sho-bud type tone with an Alumitone? I'm not happy with my sound at all, I need more twang but I don't want a bunch of hum, either. I'm playing a Mullen pre RP with Bill Lawrence 710's in it. Using either a Session 400 that I can't seem to get an acceptable tone with or my Reeves Custom 100 Hiwatt clone.
I've heard Brad Paisley's steel player uses 710's and he sounds pretty great, but he probably has access to a lot more toys than I do... |
Tim, that's Randle Currie on steel with Brad. His Franklin sounds great!
Brett |
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