Help me figure out what this tuning is??? Please?

Neil Harms · From: Ionia, Missouri, USA

Just bought my first MSA. It is a D10/12 with 10 pedals and 2 knees.

E9 neck is set up 3 and 1.

The C6 12-string neck has the following:

String 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 LKR
1 E
2 C# C D C
3 A C B G#
4 F# G G# G
5 E D#
6 C# C C C
7 A Bb G#
8 F# G
9 E D#
10 C# C
11 B Bb
12 A F#

What in the world is it? Not really great at theory, but would A9 describe this? And what do these changes give me?

Thinking of adding a couple of pedals to the e9 side and setting up the 12 string neck as standard C6. What's a good setup to start with on C6 for 12 strings with 5 and 1? Thanks in advance for any insight. C6 is a brave new world for me....

Neil Harms · From: Ionia, Missouri, USA

Um.... How about this?

Billy Tonnesen · From: R.I.P., Buena Park, California

Except for the B on the 11th string, it's an A6th basic tuning.

Matthew Prouty · From: Warsaw, Poland

Looks like the open tuning has all the notes for an A6/9 chord.

Jack Aldrich · From: Washington, USA

Definitely A6. The low B makes the tuning somewhat like the non-pedal B11 tuning:
E
C#
A
D#
B
F#
B
for an 8 string lap steel. B7 on the bottom 6, A6 on the top 4. It is a beautiful tuning for dreamy Hawaiian songs.

Rich Peterson · From: Moorhead, MN

I think maybe Pedal 5 should raise the 3rd string A to B rather than C. Then it's the C6 pedal 7.

Your pedal 6 is the C6 pedal 6.

Your pedal 7 is part of the C6 pedal 5.

Your pedal 8 functions like the Boo-wah pedal 8

Knee lever function is same as C6.

You've got most of the C6, with pedals maved around, and tuned down 3.

You say that you aren't great on theory, but how are your ears? If you need to follow tablature to learn songs, convert it to a C6 so you have lots of courses to go through.

But if you can figure songs out by ear, just play what you have and maybe it will work for you and you'll have a personal sound and style. But try tuning that pedal 5 3rd string to B. I've heard an MSA D10 tuned down to A6 and the sound was massive.

Neil Harms · From: Ionia, Missouri, USA

Thanks everyone for the input. Thanks Rich for your explanation/interpretation. In some ways, I like the idea of leaving it A6. I'm coming from a guitar background so converting frets to "A" makes more sense to me. Does having those pedals in a slightly different order make much difference in terms of pedal combinations? I guess I'm thinking in terms of the A and B pedal on E9. Wouldn't work to well to split them so does my tuning create such a "split" problem? Also, what do I lose by not having a "4" pedal?

Planning on putting a pedal "0" on the E9 and moving the "10" pedal over to E9 so that will leave the existing 5/6/7/8 and 9 pedal for the "6th" side. Any thoughts on that 9 pedal? Thanks again. N.

Neil Harms · From: Ionia, Missouri, USA

Thanks everyone for the input. Thanks Rich for your explanation/interpretation. In some ways, I like the idea of leaving it A6. I'm coming from a guitar background so converting frets to "A" makes more sense to me. Does having those pedals in a slightly different order make much difference in terms of pedal combinations? I guess I'm thinking in terms of the A and B pedal on E9. Wouldn't work to well to split them so does my tuning create such a "split" problem? Also, what do I lose by not having a "4" pedal?

Planning on putting a pedal "0" on the E9 and moving the "10" pedal over to E9 so that will leave the existing 5/6/7/8 and 9 pedal for the "6th" side. Any thoughts on that 9 pedal? Thanks again. N.

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

If I were you, I would first convert my chart of the tuning over to a "number" chart, i.e. A is "1", C# is "3" etc. Then go to b0b's tunings page, here:

http://b0b.com/tunings/index.html

Down this page a little ways is Buddy Emmon's C6th tuning, which has become sort of the de facto "standard" C6th tuning, or at least a good starting point.

http://b0b.com/tunings/stars.html#E9be

You'll want to translate that chart over to numbers, too. You'll notice he lowers and raises the third and fourth strings a half-step each - the "6" and the "1" in the upper register. (All on the knees, too - putting them there makes the thinking easier.) This is for very specific, musically-logical reasons to be able to play a whole pile of chords, in different inversions.

And, this is not exactly what I have, or most other C6th players - but it's a great starting point. There are certain combinations which become favored based on your ear and what you're trying to play - but that comes later. There are all kinds of variants - a lot of people will drop the lowest string if they're playing in a band, the bass player's down there. Then they add in another note in the middle, usually a "9th." And the battle between having the highest note be a "G" or a lower "D" is far from over.

Regarding playing in "A" vs. "C", I think that has more to do with string tension and tonal qualities rather than frets that conform to a guitar neck. I tune to Bb using a standard C6th set, because the looser strings sound more "stringy", more "woody", less "shiny" and "metallic" - gee I oughta write guitar reviews! Razz

Of course I can play it in any key, and if you want to play a lot of rock music you'll find where E and A and D are soon enough. The open strings are not nearly as important in pedal steel playing as they are on rock guitar.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

P4 changes the tuning to C6th. Clever!

I agree that P5 should probably raise A to B (not C) for the standard change.
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Neil Harms · From: Ionia, Missouri, USA

Thanks for the additional info. Think I'll leave it alone for now (with the exception of changing that one pull as suggested) and put some seat time in. I don't really enjoy tab that much so having it standard is not such an issue for that learning perspective.

As an aside though, I've had a hard time finding any info on 12 string C6. What do folks "usually" do for an extended C6? I saw one idea for adding an F and D on top which seems pretty easy to implement. Any thoughts?

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Adding the F and D on top - lower than the highest G - is what's usually called a "universal" tuning. This is the most common 12-string tuning. The second most common would be the "extended E9th" which adds two bass strings to the E9th 10-string tuning - a lot of rock players use this because it lets them play rhythm steel, typically behind someone else's soloing.

So both of these retain the lower-tuned highest strings, which for some reason in Steel-Land are called the "chromatic" strings. Most of the other variants to "use up" strings involve putting a 9th in the middle and/or a b7 down low. Since you already have the chromatic string setup on the E9th neck, that might be a good idea. Once you venture outside of the 10-string tunings, there's no set standard that I know of, except the universal-12 which is usually on a single-neck guitar. There are always lively conversations around here about which pull to put where.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

You sure have a lot of low pitched strings on that tuning. I think higher strings are more useful but that's just my preference.
Also : string 10 might be more useful if it were low D instead of C#.

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