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Topic: Playing without set-lists or rehersals............. |
Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2011 8:04 am |
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In general I think Band Leaders think of us as silent geniouses who need no direction nor fuss.
Last edited by Pete Burak on 1 Jun 2011 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 1 Jun 2011 8:10 am
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| and to put things in perspective, the song will usually be over and forgotten in 3 or 4 minutes. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 1 Jun 2011 8:36 am
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| Dave Grafe wrote: |
| What I AM saying is that when the tune is unfamiliar I don't want to sit there on stage while somebody tries to explain the entire arrangement to me on the spot. |
Dave, in total agreement, I think the question is posed as we have a gig coming, we have some time, what should we do ? That's what my comments refer to.
A last minute gig or playing an unknown song cold with no warning, that's a different deal.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2011 8:57 am
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| Quote: |
| ...we have a gig coming, we have some time, what should we do?... |
My Plan-A is to listen to the unfamiliar songs in my daily travels (usually in my car) during the week leading up to the gig.
I'll also play along with them and make some notes if needed. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 1 Jun 2011 9:07 am
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To the original question:
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A recent comment was made here on the Forum a couple of weeks back wherein the poster remarked that he was unfamiliar with many of the songs that were played on a recent gig and was somewhat overwhelmed that he was expected to more or less back-up most of the tunes and play solo's in nearly every tune as he was the primary lead instrument.
My question is: How many of you would find a one night stand with a working band of good, sober musicians, playing classic old country, pop, early day rock, to be a major mental, stress filled event if a rehersal or chord charts weren't provided? |
In this context, it depends. If the unfamiliar material isn't filled with serious changes and a lot of well-choreographed starts, stops, harmonies, and signature melodic lines/hooks/solos that I'm supposed to be able to start and stop on a dime as a primary lead instrument, I don't mind just winging it. Basic country, blues, old rock and roll, and other well-known popular tunes, even some not-so-crazy jazz standards, no need to spend tons of time prepping.
But sometimes I get sub calls for bands that really expect everything to be on the money. I just did a guitar sub gig on a few days notice with a 9-piece (4 horns) soul/r&b/funk outfit. There was a lot going on, so I didn't have to cover everything at all - but there were a bunch of absolute signature parts on tunes I haven't played that I just had to nail or not do the gig. So they gave me a book, I charted out the critical stuff, and did a quick rehearsal with the rhythm section. If I play with them again, we won't need to go through this again. This was a fun in-town gig with lots of good material, some arrangements very far from trivial but interesting, and I think it went OK - they seemed happy.
So, sometimes it's worth it (and important) to prep, other times not. |
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Scott Henderson
From:
Camdenton, Missouri, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2011 10:14 am
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I'm with Bob C...I don't do a lot of rehearsing simply because the gig just don't pay enough...I do several older nashville acts as a lot of you do...I chart the songs but simply for structure but I don't spen a lot of time with that either. as far as bar gigs??nope sorry.... Be sure and have my money ready at the end of the night... I play you pay I go home....simple I guess I am sort of blessed as top 40 country around the ozarks is about non existant...(all though I knda miss it every now and then...."did I say that???) Anyway the majority of gigs I get called to do are easy...Their are only so many ways you can play working man blues...LOL
_________________
D-10 JCH Dekley U-12 D-8 Magnatone Mullen RP Evans RE 200 profex 2 BJS bars
Dentyne gum (peppermint) |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 1 Jun 2011 11:20 am
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Scott, I believe the conversation is only in regard to songs that we don't know, obviously not the tradional country standards that we all can probably play while asleep.!
t
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Steve English
From:
Baja, Arizona
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Posted 1 Jun 2011 11:58 am
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"S.M. Johnson" wrote
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| My question is: How many of you would find a one night stand with a working band of good, sober musicians, playing classic old country, pop, early day rock, to be a major mental, stress filled event if a rehersal or chord charts weren't provided? |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 1 Jun 2011 12:57 pm
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| Not I!! |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2011 2:15 pm
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Sorry my reply sounded nasty and negative.. I am not that way by nature, but my experience over the decades has hardened me.. So much emphasis today on being "cutting edge". The material has passed me by[thank You Jesus  ,
and its just too much to learn all the different parts on two different instruments, for pin money..
Now, if it were a really good non bar gig, with a chance to perhaps get in steady with seriously good musicians, I will do my homework, and get as many of the cliche's down as I can, and do some real basic "charts"... [Scribble the chords in a notebook by the name of the song].
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 1 Jun 2011 2:26 pm
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| Bob Carlucci wrote: |
Now, if it were a really good non bar gig, with a chance to perhaps get in steady with seriously good musicians, I will do my homework |
Well stated Bob.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Alan Harrison
From:
Murfreesboro Tennessee, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2011 5:30 pm Tony Prior
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Tony, no I'm not the only lead instument in our regular band, we use six pieces. Keyboard, drums, lead guitar, bass, steel and one of the three vocalist plays rhythm guitar, "very well I must say." however, most of the music we play is new country and like many others players have said, if I get to kick off three or four songs in four hours, I'm lucky.
Like most of the players that have played for 40 or more years, I have played most of the old country songs at least three or four hundred times in different keys. Quite often I do fill in with bands where I am the only lead player. If I don't know the song, I don't mind asking the vocalist to kick it off cold...Usually they don't mind...I normally don't have a problem with a turn around or taking a complete break.
Since most of the new country doesn't have steel on the records, we have to play what we think fits in the song. Add to this being paid fourty to sixty dollars a night on an investment in instruments of around $8,000!!!!Not a great return.
We do reherse usually twice before a job and always have a set list but don't always stick to it. And Yes I love it and would do it for nothing (and often do) just to get to play. Because I LOVE IT. Am I complaining? Good grief NO....I thank GOD every day for the talent he gave me for this instrument that we all love.
At 75 years old, I am just happy that I get asked to play....
_________________
Mullen (Black) Pre G-2 9x7, B.L. 705 PUP's, Evans SE 200 Telonics NEO 15-4, BJS Bar, Peterson Strobo Flip, Steelers Choice Seat, Folgers Coffee and Hilton Pedals.
"I Steel Without Remorse" |
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Scott Henderson
From:
Camdenton, Missouri, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2011 9:05 pm
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Tony the original question was...
quote...My question is: How many of you would find a one night stand with a working band of good, sober musicians, playing classic old country, pop, early day rock, to be a major mental, stress filled event if a rehersal or chord charts weren't provided?
This gig sounds like a hoot to me not stress filled...
I would rather play with a group of good musicians on the fly that a bunch of bad musicians rehearsed...
_________________
D-10 JCH Dekley U-12 D-8 Magnatone Mullen RP Evans RE 200 profex 2 BJS bars
Dentyne gum (peppermint) |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 2 Jun 2011 1:09 am
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the question was prefaced with...
Quote:
A recent comment was made here on the Forum a couple of weeks back wherein the poster remarked that he was unfamiliar with many of the songs that were played on a recent gig and was somewhat overwhelmed that he was expected to more or less back-up most of the tunes and play solo's in nearly every tune as he was the primary lead instrument.
My question is: How many of you would find a one night stand with a working band of good, sober musicians, playing classic old country, pop, early day rock, to be a major mental, stress filled event if a rehersal or chord charts weren't provided.
un...
I am viewing the question as a fill in being the ONLY lead instrument and not knowing what the other players may add and perhaps not being familiar with the material..
I think we are all pretty much in the same place on this...
t
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Alan Harrison
From:
Murfreesboro Tennessee, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2011 5:05 am With Scott On This
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I completely agree with Scott. The groups I play with are not Professional musicians, they are weekend pickers like me. Most can not read a chart and most can not read music. Most of us play by the seat of our pants and went through many years of playing all of the music that was popular at a given time. We are also within 20 or so years of being the same age so we have gone through the same changes in country, country rock, swing and pop that time has changed. I don't think twice about playing with a group I never heard of before on an hours notice.
Just to say that on a scale of one to ten with ten being a Scott Henderson, PF or BE, I am probably a three. I don't have a lot of talent but I have a great amount of want to.
_________________
Mullen (Black) Pre G-2 9x7, B.L. 705 PUP's, Evans SE 200 Telonics NEO 15-4, BJS Bar, Peterson Strobo Flip, Steelers Choice Seat, Folgers Coffee and Hilton Pedals.
"I Steel Without Remorse" |
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Scott Henderson
From:
Camdenton, Missouri, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2011 5:32 am
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Alan my friend if you enjoy what you do then it makes it all worth while.(and I know you do.)
Tony...Yeah I understood the question and agree about being on the same page.
but it cracks me up to think of all the different ways the old play in our sleep country standards can be interpreted. My biggest laugh is how the world famous ending lick that roy nichols played on merle haggard songs was actually only played on one song but every band I play in has to end every Hag song with it.
I guess my approach to setting in with a group that plays songs I am not totally familiar with is to hang out as much as possible through the first verse and chorus
That way I can get my head wrapped around the basic hook or melody line. Even the new stuff usually has a hook phrase for the music...Getting thrown in to a deal where you are the new guy and the only lead instrument is a position I wouldn't want to be in but if the musicians are good then I suppose we could adapt to each other pretty easy... a more stressfull situation for me is playing a show WITH charts and the song is blown...I see it happen a lot at steel shows. you don't get rehearsals you just go and hope the players can hang or you tone down your show. It's all weird....but hey we love it or we stay home...enough blah blah blah
_________________
D-10 JCH Dekley U-12 D-8 Magnatone Mullen RP Evans RE 200 profex 2 BJS bars
Dentyne gum (peppermint) |
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Alan Harrison
From:
Murfreesboro Tennessee, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2011 9:10 am
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Well said Mr. Henderson.....
_________________
Mullen (Black) Pre G-2 9x7, B.L. 705 PUP's, Evans SE 200 Telonics NEO 15-4, BJS Bar, Peterson Strobo Flip, Steelers Choice Seat, Folgers Coffee and Hilton Pedals.
"I Steel Without Remorse" |
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James Cann
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 14 Jun 2011 8:05 pm
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| Quote: |
| . . . all I ask is just clue me in on the keys. |
I agree, a setlist is fine in and of itself, but it's embarrassing as hell to lean over as each song is picked and ask whomever, "What key?" |
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Keith DeLong
From:
Dartmouth NS Canada
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Posted 15 Jun 2011 2:07 am
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When you yell across the stage, "what key", someone usually yells back something or other, however, except for "A" and "F", they all sound alike  . If only we could all learn American Sign language and the Nashville numbers system, things would go a lot smoother. I've done gigs both ways, and if you're backing up a recording artist, you're better off with some kind of charts. |
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Scott Henderson
From:
Camdenton, Missouri, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2011 10:09 am
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I agree with Keith and James....Learn key sign language!!!! it makes it more professional in a chaotic scenario. I usually find a guy in the band who knows " Key sign" and just look at him and he signs me the key...makes the evening a little easier. and that guy is usually on the other side of the stage because of course we always get put next to the drummer who, most usually, doesn't know what 2 up is....LOL know disrespect to drummers with degrees...
I was once told when I asked what key "It's in G, C, and D...At that point I knew it was going to be a long night....ah life on the big stage gotta love it!!!
_________________
D-10 JCH Dekley U-12 D-8 Magnatone Mullen RP Evans RE 200 profex 2 BJS bars
Dentyne gum (peppermint) |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2011 12:57 pm
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| Keith DeLong wrote: |
| When you yell across the stage, "what key", someone usually yells back something or other, however, except for "A" and "F", they all sound alike . |
Around here, a common system is :"Charlie", "Dog", "Edward", "F", "George", "Albert", "Boy"--by themselves or with the letter, e.g. "D Dog". Kind of clumsy with sharps or flats, though...But people using this system don't usually play in Albert Flat anyway. 
And then there are the people who say "It's in C" because that's the first chord/note they play, when it's actually a song in G where the intro starts on IV. You know the song, you know the intro starts on IV, so you hit that F chord...  |
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Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 15 Jun 2011 2:40 pm
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I say wing it, and don't give it a second thought.
Who's gonna remember anyway? Unless it's taped.
As Herby, Bobby Carloochadeech, and few others have pointed out..........
This is not just some apprehensive gig. This gig is actually what you should always wish for.
...A chance to go where you've never gone before...
You get to experiment. ie -HAVE FUN.
Don't worry about screwing up. You oughta know by now how to get out of a screw-up [like repeat the faux pas immediately - looks like you planned it that way].
And we're talkin' here of barely coming home with $10 in your pocket; after all expenses getting to and from the gig, and if you drink, today, I'm sure the crappy club is not gonna give you FREEBIES.
Depending on your playing, they might even charge you DOUBLE.
Just wing it and have fun. Life's too short. Pick-up gigs are just like those gals in the street outside; PICKUPS - here now and forgotten by tommorrow.
So you make a few mistakes. Welcome mistakes. That's how you grow and learn. You never learn as much from your accomplishments as you do from your mistakes.
I would hope so.
JMHO
Hey...just my take, friends
_________________
Chip
Williams U-12 8X5; Keyless; Natural Blonde Laquer. |
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joe long
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 15 Jun 2011 3:59 pm
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A few years ago I played with a "real" gentlemen of a band leader. He furnished set list with the key and I had most of the intro's. Each set I had the opportunity for an instrumental of my choice. The set breaks were right on the hour.
Then I played with a band with no set lists, no timely breaks, fidle kicked off all the songs. Very seldom called out the key of the song. The singer was unable to sing without the song book. During the break several band members would stay on stage and continue singing while some members were on the break. The 1st break was uaually 1 hour and 50 minutes after starting the set.
As some have mentioned earlier, It's fun to play on the wing but when the song is not in the traditional key then sometimes a monkey wrench is thrown into the situation and requires some quick transposing. |
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Keith DeLong
From:
Dartmouth NS Canada
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Posted 15 Jun 2011 7:26 pm
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| One thing that helps, if the singer plays rhe has to do is srtum the chord--I have perfect pitch and can hear which key it is. |
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Scott Henderson
From:
Camdenton, Missouri, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2011 7:41 pm
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Spot on Chip...some of my best licks came from mistakes...LOL
_________________
D-10 JCH Dekley U-12 D-8 Magnatone Mullen RP Evans RE 200 profex 2 BJS bars
Dentyne gum (peppermint) |
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