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Topic: C6 Center Knee Copedent Suggestions |
Mickey Adams
From:
Bandera Texas
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Posted 18 May 2011 6:48 pm |
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In an effort to further my understanding of C6 copedents, would those of you that have Center Knees..CKL,CKR,CKV...Please send me your copedent charts and briefly (or in mucho technical detail, your choice) explain to me why you use these specific changes, and their benefits as far as scalular single note passages, as well as chordal considerations,and your primary uses for them..
If you would like to have my Excel spreadsheet copedent chart for submission, please email me at jetdrivr@tx.rr.com thanks guys!..(PC) and girls too)...Mick
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ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders! |
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Jim Hollingsworth
From:
Way out West
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Posted 18 May 2011 8:55 pm C6 knees
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Hi Mickey,
BEWARE of C6! It is even more addictive than E -9!
I have three middle levers on the C neck:
LKL lower the A's to G# - gives you a nice C Augmented chord, but more importantly it gives you a great minor 9 chord when used with the 6 pedal. And it also provides some really cool speed licks.
LKV - reverse pedal 6 - I also use it for E9 style country licks since it raises E to F which gives you the equivalent to the B Pedal. Lots of other uses.
LKR - Raises C to C#
RKL - :owers C to B
RKR - raises A to Bb.
My Mullen RP has both A raises on 1 knee ( A to G# & A to Bb, and the C raises on RKR -C to B and C to C#.
The other idea I'd recommend ( Rick Schmidt endorses) raising both E's to F on one lever. Equivalent to B Pedal and also creates a nice diatonic scale run.
I seriously LOVE the C neck ..... I guess I have fallen under the spell of the Schmidt!
Let me know if I can provide more info.
Jim |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 19 May 2011 6:39 am
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| I would look at the copedant charts of both Herby Wallace and Herb Steiner. You can learn a lot from these guys. |
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Drew Howard
From:
48854
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Posted 19 May 2011 7:18 am
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For center knees I use the Emmons raise/lower A's plus vertical raise high E/lower low E. A wealth of stuff there. A > Bb gets a lot of use. A > Ab gets you an augmented.
Don't use pedals/levers much for single note stuff but then I'm average. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 19 May 2011 9:53 am
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I agree with what Jim said above. I've got a lot of tab to display what my changes do but Jim covered it pretty well.
However, there is a way, on a compact double neck guitar to get another knee lever to use on C6 without actually installing it. I have the E9th, left knee vertical, also actuating the E to F change on the C6th neck string 6. It's a piece of cake to reach your left knee over to the E9th left knee vertical on a compact guitar as long as you don't have a C6 LKL in the way!
Greg |
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Mickey Adams
From:
Bandera Texas
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Posted 19 May 2011 10:18 am
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I got something setup...raising Cs Raising Es, and G to G#...Im set for now...!!
_________________
ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders! |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 19 May 2011 10:31 am
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| It also makes a difference on your setup if you have a G or a D on the 1st string. |
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Joerg Hennig
From:
Bavaria, Germany
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Posted 19 May 2011 12:45 pm
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I have a CKV that does just the opposite of pedal 6, that is, it lowers the 2nd string a half tone and raises the 6th string a half tone. Like pedal 6, it changes a I chord into a IV chord (if you take the 9th string as the root) but with a totally different voicing, very strummable.
I've also got a CKL that lowers the 5th string a whole tone (G to F). It doesn't seem to have much use on its own, but when I press pedal 6 together with it, it becomes like an express ticket to rockabilly and thumb picking! It eliminates the 9th that you usually get with pedal 6 by changing it to the root tone (again string 9 as the root), so now it's pure dominant 7th.
I only use them for chords, most single note stuff I play is without the pedals anyway.
I hope that makes sense, I'm not too keen on the theoretical stuff... But I just love those changes and would insist on having them on every future guitar.
BTW I have G on the first string because I like it better. |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 19 May 2011 1:34 pm
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Regarding the E to F change...I think the most important thing is to have an F natural somewhere in the middle of the tuning, whether it's raising both E's, doing the reverse of pedal 6, or lowering the G to F.
My main reason for raising both E's, is that it works really great with a floor pedal that I have that lowers both strings 9 & 10 down a minor 3rd.
If I didn't have that floor pedal, I'd probably prefer the G to F lower (plus the low C to D raise) Besides creating a great F Major and nice close voiced FMaj7, it's also great for jazzy Dmin chords.
Mickey, you might want to also re-examine the half tone raising and lowering of the A's, which to me is as important as raising and lowering the E's on E9! |
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Herby Wallace
From:
Sevierville, TN, R.I.P.
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Posted 19 May 2011 3:26 pm C6th Change
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One of my favorite and most used change on C6th is lowering the 5th string a whole tone and I also raise the 10th string a whole tone with it. I have this on a R to L lever and believe me, I use it a lot. open there are voicings of an F Major 7th but what I use the most is the open voicings or a D minor 9th. It also is used with the 6th pedal and also the 7th pedal. I have a section in one of my course that shows the uses of this change.
Herby Wallace |
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Mickey Adams
From:
Bandera Texas
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Posted 19 May 2011 6:00 pm
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Oh Yeah Herby!...I like this change...I took your advice, and set it up..Thanks SO much1
_________________
ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders! |
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Ryan Barwin
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 21 May 2011 12:16 am
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I find the CKL useful by itself for a dominant 7th, and for diminished or augmented chords with other pedals.
The CKR by itself produces a nice minor chord.
Clete |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 21 May 2011 1:26 pm
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I moved my high D to D# back to the 8th pedal. kept the 6th string E to F on my E9th vertical and added the G to F and C to D change to one of my knees. Yup, it's really cool! Lots of nice chords and tons of single string riffs I could never find are now playable with ease. Not sure how useful it will be to keep the lone E to F change now but it makes for a great ending chord.
Greg |
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Ryan Barwin
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 21 May 2011 3:11 pm
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I have the G to G# raise on my CKV lever...I don't use it much, but it's pretty cool for a C augmented chord or Caug7 or C7b13 (with the A to Bb raise), F7#9 with P6, Amin(maj7), and lots of other altered chords/tritone subs.
_________________
www.pedalsteel.ca |
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Tommy Auldridge
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 22 May 2011 4:09 am C6th. Is very complex......
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I really don't spend as much time on the back neck as I should. I do however, have a center LKR that does what pedal 8 used to do... It lowers 9 and 10 and raises 7..That way it's very easy to switch back and fourth from pedal 5 to this (what used to be pedal  knee lever. Now that pedal 8 is available to add another change, I use it to raise 3 and 7 from C to C#...That's handy with pedal 5 ....If you have your first string tuned to a D, and place the bar on the third fret, engage pedal 5 and pedal 8 (which now raises 3 and 7) you'll have a C chord with a nice chromatic note on the first string. Then, if you release pedal 5 you'll get an Augmented leading you to your 4 chord.. Make sense??
Not big news here but, I find it a whole new way to play melodys. Also, I have a pedal that raises 4 and 8 from A to Bb...I've found some really crazy speed picking licks, with the 3rd. string lowered and pedalling off and on the one that raises string 4... When I do that, the first string fits nicely too.
There seems to be an awful lot to think about on C6th..... Tommy....... |
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Tommy Auldridge
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 22 May 2011 4:19 am Oops
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| I don't know how I got that smiley face in there. It should have said (....I tried to edit it but it didn't seem to work. Tommy....... |
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Mickey Adams
From:
Bandera Texas
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Posted 22 May 2011 8:51 am
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AHAH....ERV...Ive got both!...My C6 is an extended 12 string...My top 3 are F, D and G!!....
Tommy thats what im looking for..Outside the box changes!...Thanks!
_________________
ARTIST RELATIONS: MSA GUITARS
2017 MSA LEGEND XL D10, S10, Studio Pro S12 EXE9
Mullen G2, Rittenberry S10, Infinity D10, Zumsteel 8+9
Anderson, Buscarino, Fender, Roman Guitars, Sarno Octal, Revelation Preamps, BJS BARS, Lots of Blackface Fenders! |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 22 May 2011 5:16 pm
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Here's a snippet of audio showing the 5th string G to F change. It's used in 2 places here: a quick single string riff starting at 0:06 seconds (played on the top 5 strings, D string on top) and a one measure strum (3 groups of notes) starting at 0:19 seconds. This is part of an old gospel song entitled "He" that I'm working on.
Hear It!
Greg |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 22 May 2011 6:05 pm Re: Oops
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| Tommy Auldridge wrote: |
| I don't know how I got that smiley face in there.... |
 I figured that was an 8.
Click "Disable smiles in this post" and 8 ) wont appear as
Clete |
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Tommy Auldridge
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 23 May 2011 5:24 am Ooops.
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| Clete: Thank you. I couln't really figure out what was causing that. Now I know how to use them when I want to. Tommy....... |
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