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Topic: tapered fingerboards |
James Biegel
From:
Montana, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2011 2:18 pm |
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| Is there any reason to have a tapered fingerboard/neck on a lap steel?[/list] |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 29 Apr 2011 2:30 pm Re: tapered fingerboards
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| James Biegel wrote: |
| Is there any reason to have a tapered fingerboard/neck on a lap steel?[/list] |
It's a nice visual trick that helps the string spacing at the nut not appear to be too wide. I had a steel where the width at the nut and bridge were the same and I always got mildly confused up by the nut. Otherwise, no, there's no technical reason I'm aware of.
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
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Kekoa Blanchet
From:
Kaua'i
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Posted 29 Apr 2011 3:42 pm
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Good question. It seems counterproductive to have the narrowest string spacing at the end of the neck where you have the widest fret spacing -- it exaggerates the slant angles. But then, I've never played a steel with uniform string spacing, so I can't say what problems might show up there.
Anybody ever build a steel with wider string spacing at the nut than at the bridge? Sounds wacky, but it could make accurate slants a bit easier. |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2011 5:17 pm
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| Equal string spacing can make your multi-string slants as 'perfect' as can be. I think it was 5/8 that Jerry Byrd said would give the best results on a parallel set up. |
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Bob Tuttle
From:
Republic, MO 65738
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Posted 29 Apr 2011 8:27 pm
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| Jerry's recommended string spacing was 3/8". He also recommended a 3/4" bar. |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 30 Apr 2011 3:28 am
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I don't think of it as tapering towards the nut. I think of it as getting wider towards the bridge for picking access.
_________________
Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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John Morton
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2011 7:22 am
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| Kekoa Blanchet wrote: |
| I've never played a steel with uniform string spacing, so I can't say what problems might show up there. |
So uniform spacing is not common? I solicited info on this in an earlier post, and there were no responses.
Does anyone care to post the string spacing of their steels, measured across the strings at nut and saddle?
Thanks, the inquiring mind needs to know ... |
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Former Member
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Posted 30 Apr 2011 8:46 am
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This is a very interesting topic!! I've never thought about it before..
I've measured 4 steel guitars with a tape measure, AND they're all right handed--strung left-handed...  So might be slightly off...
1. JB/Shot longneck 8-string. 24 1/2" scale
Nut width= 2 3/16" , between strings= 4/16 to 5/16
bridge width= 3 1/16" BS= 6/16 to 7/16
2. Rick Aiello #11 6-STRING. 22 9/16" scale
nut width= 1 13/16", BS= 5/16 to 6/16
bridge width= 2 3/16" BS= 6/16
3. Sierra lap 8-string. 24 3/16 scale
nut width= 2 5/16" BS= 5/16
bridge width= 3" BS= 6/16 to 7/16
4. Fuzzy excel JB table 8-string. 23" scale
nut width= 2 3/16" BS= (little less than) 5/16"
bridge width= 2 12/16" BS= 5/16 to 6/16"
Variations for lefty stringing, bridge irregularities, tape measure..(I hope this isn't a total waste of someone's time...)
--Would the Fuzzy be the most accurate?
The real question as stated is: What is best? |
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John Morton
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2011 10:37 am
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Thanks Ron, this is especially interesting because of how similar they are. Everything is around 5/16" at the nut, 7/16" at the bridge except for #4 which is a bit tighter at the bridge. (I always measure center-to-center, or divide the total span by the number of spaces.)
Parallel strings make sense to me, but my instruments have the Weissenborn shape and would look funny without a tapered fingerboard. |
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Bob Tuttle
From:
Republic, MO 65738
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Posted 30 Apr 2011 10:39 am
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| Joaquin Murphy wanted his strings spaced at 3/8" at both ends. I've never had the opportunity to play an instrument with parallel spacing, so I don't know if that would be more desirable or not. |
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Paul DiMaggio
From:
Fort Nelson, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 30 Apr 2011 6:05 pm
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| I have a Morrell Pro 6 string that I changed the nut from plastic to steel and made the spacing 3/8" all the way. I also have a Allen-Melbert 8 string with a string spacing of 3/8" at the bridge but 5/16" at the nut. Accurate slants are easier for me on the Morrell than on the A-M, especially lower down on the neck. The fretboard/neck is not tapered on either of them. |
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Allan Munro
From:
Pennsylvania, USA and Scotland
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Posted 30 Apr 2011 8:01 pm
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In strict theory it is not possible to play an accurate chord on a tapered string set. In practice the numbers are so close that it makes little difference. Wanna see some numbers? **GEEK WARNING**
_________________
Only nuts eat squirrels.
Television is the REAL opiate of the masses! |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 30 Apr 2011 10:44 pm
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| The last guitar I built has 13/32" spacing on both ends, (just under 7/16" ) 7-string. It plays easy, but slightly "different" ...... |
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Kekoa Blanchet
From:
Kaua'i
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Posted 1 May 2011 1:35 pm
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Allan, any time I see a "Geek Warning", I gotta check it out. Thanks for an interesting writeup.
In my earlier post, though, I wasn't speculating about the accuracy of the middle string in 3 string slants, but rather the bar angle needed to make a 2 string slant. Just as slants near the nut are easier on a 22.5" scale than on a 25" scale, slants near the nut are easier with wider string spacing.
And, following up on the whimsical wider-at-the-nut string spacing idea, it could make slants less extreme at both ends of the neck. But since nobody has ever made one, I presume it creates more problems than it solves -- I just don't know what those problems are yet.  |
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Allan Munro
From:
Pennsylvania, USA and Scotland
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Posted 1 May 2011 8:30 pm
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| Kekoa Blanchet wrote: |
| ...In my earlier post, though, I wasn't speculating about the accuracy of the middle string in 3 string slants, but rather the bar angle needed to make a 2 string slant. Just as slants near the nut are easier on a 22.5" scale than on a 25" scale, slants near the nut are easier with wider string spacing... |
Good stuff there. You are, of course, right in your observation. In the practical scenario of a typical steel guitar, with a relatively small change in the width across the strings at the nut as compared to the bridge, two note slants are always going to be fine. Indeed, to be realistic, as I believe I proved in the write up referenced, so are three string slants for all practical purposes. I have never, personally, played a three string slant chord. (I ain't that much of a steel player anyhow) The post was just a venture into geekdom.
My own interest lies firmly in the world of building a pedal steel that will suit me - if it suits anyone else then that will be pure coincidence!!! For that reason, if an aspect of the instrument leaves me less than at ease, it will not happen. My instrument will thus have parallel strings - even if I NEVER play a slant chord on it!!!
I am glad that you found my post interesting and I appreciate you saying so.
Regards, Allan.....
_________________
Only nuts eat squirrels.
Television is the REAL opiate of the masses! |
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John Morton
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 2 May 2011 8:25 am
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Allan, thank you for your take on this. I have built slide guitars and thought about them, but I have no significant experience playing them. So I'm not a good judge of your analysis.
Here's my take:
It seems obvious that you can never have a perfect 3-string slant chord - the frets involved would have to be equidistant for the bar to cross the middle fret at the same point where the string crosses it.
Kekoa, I think you point to the most important issue: radical slants are more difficult to intone. Longer scale and more closely spaced strings both aggravate the problem. |
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Allan Munro
From:
Pennsylvania, USA and Scotland
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Posted 2 May 2011 9:14 am
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| John Morton wrote: |
Allan, thank you for your take on this. I have built slide guitars and thought about them, but I have no significant experience playing them. So I'm not a good judge of your analysis.
Here's my take:
It seems obvious that you can never have a perfect 3-string slant chord - the frets involved would have to be equidistant for the bar to cross the middle fret at the same point where the string crosses it.
Kekoa, I think you point to the most important issue: radical slants are more difficult to intone. Longer scale and more closely spaced strings both aggravate the problem. |
Absolutely right John. My post, in the other forum, was simply an exercise in 'geeking'. I don't know if there is ANY practical application for it in the real world. I think I was simply stirring the pot when I posted the reference to my waffle. I hope no one decides to get heavy about it!!! I may be forced to post my write up on flexible bars designed to allow multi-string, 'non straight line' chords.   
Thanks for responding though, regards, Allan.....
_________________
Only nuts eat squirrels.
Television is the REAL opiate of the masses! |
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Former Member
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Allan Munro
From:
Pennsylvania, USA and Scotland
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Posted 9 May 2011 5:50 am
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| Ron Ellison wrote: |
Now check out George "Mrboards" Pilburn's "extremely accurate intonation"....
...His measurements are: 3/8th's at the bridge, 11/32nd's at the nut...
12/32 at the bridge
11/32 at the nut..on a 22.5" scale guitar..
Is this the golden mean?? For slants anyway...?
Wish I could play one just to see the differences. |
Might well be! Very interesting, I need to look a bit further in to that one. Need to check the 'geek worthyness' first though.
But, for sure, those things are soooooo nice - I want one!
_________________
Only nuts eat squirrels.
Television is the REAL opiate of the masses! |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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