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Topic: Moving from Pedal Steel to > Non-Pedal Steel |
Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2011 8:27 am |
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I've been considering ending my pursuit of pedal steel and focuing on non-pedal steel. Don't know if anyone has done this, but if anyone has I would be interested in your assessment of the move.
I am 67 yrs. old and currently play both: a master of none. Both styles have their own unique techniques, but I find the non-pedal to be "friendlier"...just my opinion and I am sure there are opposing views.
Thanks for any input. |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 22 Apr 2011 8:58 am
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My E9 PSG is currently packed away for the next couple of years while I focus on other instruments. For myself, the E9 is a ballad machine, whereas the lap steel is a swing machine. Since my focus for the next couple of years is exclusively swing/gypsy jazz, the lap steel stays out and gets played along with my gypsy guitar whereas the PSG does not.
I will NEVER sell my PSG and I will come back to it someday. I've gotten to a point where I have nothing but keeper instruments/amps and even if I don't play an instrument very often, I know that someday I'll come back to it and put it heavy rotation.
YMMV 
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Primitive Utility Steel |
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Larry Haas
From:
Morganton, North Carolina USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2011 12:21 pm
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Tom,I am 66 years old and I have made the move over to lap steel. I sure is lighter to carry around. I never did get to play the pedal steel like I wanted to. I surely love the sound of one being played by someone that is good at it. The lap has a totally different sound from what I like to hear and play.
As of now, I am playing with different tunings to find the one I am comfortable with. So for now it is just a learning exercise on how to use slants and string pulls.
I have one good one, and two cheap ones that are setup in different tunings and they all get played at a lot. Today, I am going to tune one to the F#9th and see how it goes with that tuning. The others are tuned to C6 and Open E. I like the open E since it is easy to play and understand where I need to be and go to when I practice some songs the band I play with do. There's not much info I can find on anything other than C6. The C6 tuning sounds good when played by someone that is good at it.
I can use tabs to songs but I can't read any songs that doesn't have them ( string/fret ) on the sheets.
One of the things I wish I had learned when I was a lot younger would be how to read a sheet of music and be able to play it with out hearing the song first. I know I'll never be as good as I would like to be but it sure is fun learning. Being retired lightens the time at it since I can play with it as long as I can stay awake and not have to worry about going to work the next day. It probably isn't a change that everyone should or could make but it is working out in my circumstances. I have seen pictures of the lap steel that has the hand levers and it looks like it would be a lot of fun playing that one but I would have to adapt my picking style to use it. Might have to find one and give it a try.
Larry |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 22 Apr 2011 12:28 pm
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E9 is great for non-pedal (I got this from old Buddy Emmons and Speedy West records, but they used a pedal or 2):
E
B
G#
F#
D
B
G#
E
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Larry Haas
From:
Morganton, North Carolina USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2011 1:32 pm
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| Mike Neer wrote: |
E9 is great for non-pedal (I got this from old Buddy Emmons and Speedy West records, but they used a pedal or 2):
E
B
G#
F#
D
B
G#
E |
Mike, you are a very good lap steel player. I have read on your site somewhere that you have only been playing the lap steel for 7 years. When did you feel you were playing like you wanted to play it. I know no one feels like they are playing like they want to but in that time frame you have done mighty well with it. What would your setup be for a 6 string. I know you like C6, but for some reason my head won't let me take it in. I feel like I am playing out of tune or key when I try to figure it out. I guess what I am saying is, it sounds like I am trying to find the right chord but just haven't found it yet. Maybe what I am saying probably isn't making any sense either. Guess I need to order some of your stuff to get me over the hump.
Larry |
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Wayne D. Clark
From:
Montello Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2011 2:41 pm
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I don't know whether age is a requirement in this thread but. I Started on Lap Steel in '46 with a National New Yorker. learnid on a 1930 Sears, acustic that my sister tried to learn to play. Up graded to a Fender D8 in the 50's Tried PSG, in the 70's traided it for cash and a dobro, purchased 3 more PSG's in the last 10 years and finaly last December Sold the last PSG, after trying to get the hang of it for the umpteeneh time.I purchased a new Melbert 8 Lap Steel from Bob Allen of Music on the Montian in Livingston Tn.and am happy playing again. I tried C6/A7 wonderful sound. But went back to a modified "E" tuning. First to eight string. E, B, G#, E, C# B, G#, E, I like that c# on the fifth string it gives me a pleasent variation of a strum cord, switching keys or a minor touch when needed.
Wayne D. Clark
Melbert 8 Coundol
Goodrich pedal
Peavey 110
usnyn2nd@frontier.com
Last edited by Wayne D. Clark on 22 Apr 2011 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 22 Apr 2011 2:50 pm
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| Larry Haas wrote: |
Mike, you are a very good lap steel player. I have read on your site somewhere that you have only been playing the lap steel for 7 years. When did you feel you were playing like you wanted to play it. I know no one feels like they are playing like they want to but in that time frame you have done mighty well with it. What would your setup be for a 6 string. I know you like C6, but for some reason my head won't let me take it in. I feel like I am playing out of tune or key when I try to figure it out. I guess what I am saying is, it sounds like I am trying to find the right chord but just haven't found it yet. Maybe what I am saying probably isn't making any sense either. Guess I need to order some of your stuff to get me over the hump.
Larry |
Larry, thanks for the compliment. If you are having trouble getting your head around C6, then give E9 a try.
I would tune it from high to low, E B G# F# D B. It's a very nice tuning, but there are few learning materials for it: in fact, mine are the only ones i know of. But this way, when you're ready, you can change a few of the strings and end up in C6. It really is not as hard as you think it is. maybe you need to look at it a little differently, that's all.
When did I start to feel like I was playing the way i wanted to? Well, I'm not there, yet, but I'm getting closer every day. I've paid my dues learning a lot of classic Hawaiian and Western Swing and Country, so now I know I have a lot of the fundamentals pretty solid. Now I just want to make music the way I want to.
Thanks again.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2011 4:19 pm
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Thanks for the responses guys.
I have an 8 string Sierra I've been practicing on. It's tuned to an E9...(high to low)E,B,G#,F#,E,D,B,E
I drop the 6th string D to a C# sometimes so I can get a C#m chord (relative minor to the E chord. When I do this I don't have to move the root note fret position. (Elementary I know)  |
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Butch Pytko
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2011 9:09 am
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Tom--I can give you my outlook on moving from pedal steel to non-pedal. My feeling is not one of quitting or abandoning pedal steel--it's like moving over to my other love--Hawaiian steel guitar. I've had this HYBRID type interest since day one. I've played a lot of pedal steel C&W gigs thru the years & many in your area of Houston, as I lived there for 10 years. Currently, the live music scene in this area is so horrible, I thought I'd take a break & review what I learned way back when I first started on non-pedal steel.
My interest was learned from my Dad's discovery of the great Hawaii Calls shows back in the 50's. When I was say, 15 or so, I started fooling around with my Dad's 4-neck Stringmaster. He taught me various styles: Roy Wiggins, Speedy West, Noel Boggs, Jerry Byrd--mainly in the C&W vain--along with the Hawaiian stuff we were hearing on the Hawaii Calls shows & many Hawaiian albums we have. So, you can see we had a varied interest in different playing styles of steel guitar.
Right now I'm going over many of the Hawaii Calls shows that my Dad taped back in the 50's, along with all the Hawaiian albums I have, figuring-out the great licks that mainly Jules Ah See was doing. I just put 3 tunings on my 4-neck: C#mi7(modified), B11, & C6. Nothing on the 4th neck for now.
You're talking about the different techniques. What I instantly discovered was the need for the SLANTS on the non-pedal. Also, the partial chords & notes that are sometimes out-of-position, so to speak, when you compare it to the E9 & C6 D-10's that I had been playing thru the years. It's definitely a different way of playing--it makes you think! I remember way back when I first was learning pedal steel, someone said that the pedals take the place of bar slants--that rings so true!
Last edited by Butch Pytko on 23 Apr 2011 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Kay Das
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 23 Apr 2011 9:29 am
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Tom,
Both beautiful instruments in their own right and a lot of scope for cross-over in technique. I learnt pedal steel from the late great Winnie Winston, attended a few Buddy Emmons/Jeff Newman workshops and then picked up lap steel on my own.
An example of contrast between lap and pedal:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=190060&highlight=harvest+moon
Have fun!
Kay |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2011 11:32 am
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Beautiful tracks Kay. Demonstrates they are truly two distinctive versions of the same basic instrument.
Oh...to be able to scrounge-up another 25 yrs. to perfect the technique!!! |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2011 2:34 pm
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The two PSG players I know of who have gone back to non pedal and done extremely well at it are Tom Morrell and Maurice Anderson. Tom used a 10 string tuned to E9 (G#-F#-E-C#-B-G#-F#-E-D-E) from top to bottom if I remember right. And Maurice uses a 12 string (D-B-G-E-C-A-G-E-C-A-F-D) from top to bottom with the 1st and second strings tuned between 4th and 5th and between 5th and 6th respectively. Doug Beaumier is another forum member who has done it. I have no details on him. I've heard some C6 stuff he's posted on the forum. Maybe he'll weigh in here.
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Amor vincit omnia |
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