12" vs. 15"

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

I'm going to have a 50W tube amp built for my pedal steel, and would like to hear from those of you familiar with the Peavey 1201 and Black Widow 1501-4 speakers. The amp would typically feature the 1201 (12") and I'm still wondering if a 15" might give me a tad more bass response or even volume. I'm not tech-savvy, and I realize some of this might be subjective, but comments are appreciated nonetheless.

Thanks.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Yes, given the same amplifier, magnet and voice coil structure the 15" speaker will have improved low end response and move more air in general.

David Nugent · From: Gum Spring, Va.

Daniel...Since you are having the amp custom built, why not have it made as a head only configuration. That would give the choice of using either a 12" or 15" speaker...I use my amp head with a 12" BW cab for smaller jobs where volume is not an issue but setup space is, and a neo 15" cab where more coverage and bass response may become necessary.

Tommy Boswell · From: Virginia, USA

I have 2 questions about Peavey speaker model numbers that might be helpful here, if other forumites could answer:

1. Isn't the 1201 a PA speaker? And the 1203 would be better for steel guitar?

2. I happen to have a 1502, and I've noticed that my 3rd string sound is very thin. I actually thought there was something wrong with my pickup, until I plugged into a 12 inch guitar speaker, and found my 3rd string sound. Does the 1501 handle the high frequencies better than my 1502? And how does it compare to a 12 inch speaker?

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

I was told the 12" is a 1201, for steel. I don't really know what type of speaker that is. The 15" would be a Black Widow - I changed this above. Not sure if a BW is 1501 or not.
Further clarifications are appreciated, and thanks for the replies.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Peavey used the 1203 speaker in the Nashville 112 speaker cabinets they used to build. That is what Jeff Newman used for steel for many years. It is the one you want.

There are other posts about the 1203 on the forum.

The 1203 is available in 4 or 8 ohms.

Tommy Boswell · From: Virginia, USA

They're all Black Widows, 1201, 1203, 1501, 1502, plus others. You can't just go by "Black Widow". You need to get the right model number.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I defer to Mike Brown and the knowledgeable folks at Peavey, but I believe the current 1203 BW and Super 4 and 8 ohm driver are Kevlar impregnated PA drivers unlike the earlier 1203-4. That was voiced for steel guitar in the Nashville 112E cabinet and had a special design paper cone.

Information on current speakers for steel guitar is not listed on Peavey's website, so a call to Mike Brown would be in order for the latest. The "Tech Notes" section on their support page has specs for earlier BW models.

I could be wrong, but I think there are only 2 Peavey speakers in current production that meet their steel guitar app specifications....the 1501-4SB and the 12" Blue Marvel that is used in the NV112.

That doesn't mean that other BW models don't work with steel guitar, they do but there have been design changes on the same model #'s over the years.

I know some early Mace and Deuce guitar amps had flat magnet 12" BW's, so they were available for guitar application at one time for sure. I'm not sure of the model #.

I just found an old BW Super Structure spec sheet that lists the 1201-8 as having a response curve suitable for stage and FOH applications. It also states that the speaker has a bright, crisp edge making it suitable for guitar and keyboards. They had a alum dust cap in that era also.

As to the sonic differences between the 12 and 15 in general, there is an inherent low end boost with a 15" driver, whereas a 12" will have a tighter, more focused sound.

I have some of ea. The 1201-8, the earlier steel guitar 1203-4 model, all eras of 1501 including the old Spider flat mags, the long basket designated DT series and recent 1501-SB.

All of these speakers sound good with a steel guitar when eq'd properly. They all have slightly different specs and response curves. Each of them has it's own sweet spot at a certain frequency range making them ideal to mix in a stereo configuration. I can't see much difference in volume except for the 8 ohm 1201 which would be expected to have a bit less volume at the same setting as a 4 ohm.
The more recent 1501's are a bit louder than the old spider, they're also weightier probably owing to the heavier mag.

To summarize, my favorite configuration in a stereo setting is a 1501-4 on one side and a 1201 or 1203 on the other.

For single channel use as with a NV400 etc., I have a 1501-4 SB cabinet that is hard to beat.

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

Thank you very much for all the comments!
While there can be disagreements among us, it's very helpful to hear from those of you more well versed in such matters than I.
I'm also considering the possibility of using a vintage EVM 15L 4(or 8)ohm speaker, but that's not a solid option at the moment.
A tip of my hat to you gents.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Fred Rushing · From: Odin, IL, USA

You owe it to yourself to try the Peavey 4 ohm 12 inch Blue marvel like they use in the NV112. It is an excellant steel guitar speaker and can give you plenty of bottom end as well as very clean highs that are not razor like. If you can try that speaker you should do it. JMO

Fred

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

Well, Fred, I may just do that!
The amp is to have a second baffle, which will allow a swift swap of the 1501-4 with any 12" speaker, and back again, if so desired. This way, I don't have to go to the great expense of having just a head built, with matching cabinets, for a 12" and a 15", which really doesn't make a lot of sense.
However, I was told the 1201 only comes in 8 ohms new.
At any rate, this set up will be very versatile.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Fred Rushing · From: Odin, IL, USA

Danial. FWIW I just tried a 1201 8 ohm BW which has the kevlar cone in a N112. The Blue Marvel IMO was what I wanted to hear hands down. All will not agree with me but many will. Your ears will let you know. We all hear differently. JMO Fred.

David Nugent · From: Gum Spring, Va.

Daniel..In my previous post, it was not my intention to suggest that you have the cabs custom built. Suitable speaker cabs are always readily available at minimal cost on the local Craigslist. For instance, the total expenditure for my 12" cab was approximately $90.00, which includes the cost of replacing the existing speaker with the "Black Widow".

Jay Fagerlie · From: Lotus, California, USA

Daniel,
IMHO, you should make that a 100 watt amp if it is for pedal steel.
Every time I use one of my 50W tube amps live with steel I wish I had the 100W amp....
Just not enough headroom....unless that's what you are going for.
Its the drummer! It's always the drummer!
Jay

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

Thanks, fellers!

David: No, I didn't think you were saying I should have the cabs custom built. What I meant is that I'd want the cabs to match the head, and that would mean they'd have to be custom built . THAT'S what would cost. Your idea is a good one if I were not going the "deluxe" route with custom wood instead of tweed. Although either way, I don't know as I'd actually need two different size speakers in cabs.

Jay: NO, IT'S THE LEAD GUITAR PLAYERS!! Well, at least for me....
A 100W version isn't available in this amp, but it can be hooked up to a powered cab if I ever needed it. At this stage in my life, I'm tired of high volume. Actually, I always was....

Bottom line: As I finally placed the order, what I'm getting is a Little Walter Vintage 50W Combo amp, finished with cherry and maple, BW 1501-4 speaker. But since I simply couldn't decide what size speaker to get, Phil came up with the idea of a second baffle which would allow me to switch out the 15" speaker and install a 12" with little effort.

I have to thank Phil for his excellent service, and both Paul Franklin and Dan Tyack for giving me their views on the amp and speaker.
Very excited now!
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Franklin · Posted 21 Mar 2011 4:48 am

Daniel,

No matter which speaker you end up with, you will love the response, the clarity and the depth of the bottom end with your new "Little Walter" amp........Phil is the greatest to deal with.....He listens and solves issues......I'm sure this will become an available option for others...you'll certainly have the first with the interchangeable baffle.....Cool idea........Paul

Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

For those wanting to try a 12" instead of their 15" there is a nice baffle reducing ring here that will do the trick. We have used several and they work very well.

http://www.mojotone.com/amp-parts/Baffles

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

Thanks, Ken, that could prove useful.

By the way, it came down to your amp and the Little Walter. I liked the idea of 100W.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

Thanks! That baffle changer is made of wood and a good fit. Did an LTD 400 with one and really liked it.

Kyle Everson · From: Nashville, Tennessee

Daniel,

I have recently tried both the 1203-4 and the 1201-8, and to my ears, the 1201-8 has a more rounded sound, especially on the 3rd string. It was much easier to eq my amp for the sound I wanted to hear with this speaker. I found the 1203-4 speakers to be a bit piercing on the high end.

Good luck with your new amp!

Kyle

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

Thanks for the input, Kyle.
From what I understand from Phil, the amp is geared for 4 ohms, and a 4 ohm speaker would work best. I went with the 1501-4, but with that second baffle, I can swap it for an 8 ohm 15", or 4 or 8 ohm 12" speaker.
So the options are there; I'm keeping these suggestions for future reference, when I may wish to try something different.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Kevin Mincke · From: Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA

My son uses a Nashville 112 cabinet 1203 with his DrZ head. He likes with his tele/strat. Peavey had a real winner with the N115 and 112 cab's when they were in production. I still have a pair of the TubeWorks cabinets in 15" and 12" loaded with the Black Widows. Wish I had my other 115's back. Either one will sound great with that tube amp!

Kyle Everson · From: Nashville, Tennessee

Daniel,
I should have mentioned that I run a 2x12 cab, so the total load is 4 ohms. It's really not an issue for the speaker since they have such a high power rating. And since Phil's amp can handle the mismatch, you should be all good no matter what configuration you choose.

Did you decide on the single 50 watt or the PF 50/50?

Forum Index > Electronics		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic