case trouble

Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

Got my williams about a year ago and have been gigging heavily with it, and I love it. However, all the screws for the hinges on the lid side of the case are stripped and falling out. I've considered the old toothpicks and glue solution, as well as drilling all the way through The wood and using machine screws with nylock nuts instead. I can handle this myself without a problem, but my question is: Am I the only one with this problem? I have started leaning the lid against something while I put my steel together to avoid any strain on those screws. I don't think I have been abusive, and it doesn't seem right that the case should be in disrepair so quickly?

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Olie, the Williams case I received was a nice one without any of the issues you experience. I don't know if Bill and his crew still build them or if they're contracted out, but you should probably contact him about your issues and how best to resolve them.

Be careful, if you decide to repair it yourself, not to let any fasteners protrude through the case lining or your guitar will suffer dings and gouges.

Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

I have not other complaints about the case at all. Well, now that i think of it, the handle had to be taped up because the metal strap of the handle cut through the rubber and was threatening to cut me!
Anyway, the design and look of the case are great but maybe if I gig heavily I ought to buy something a bit more heavily built.....

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

This is the one that came with mine. Unless you are excessively rough and abusive with it, it should certainly last longer than one year no matter how heavily gigged. Yeah, a flight case will fare better bouncing and dragging around, but the stock construction should be tougher than that.

It's possible that the plywood has voids where the fasteners attach and there's not much to grab onto. Generally, the toothpick and glue method works pretty well.

Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

but voids along the entire edge? All 8 screws on all 4 hinges are stripped. There is no excessive banging around, i try to be gentle with it, but it goes in and out of my house and car at least 3 times a week and has for the past year.
I want a more reliable solution than toothpicks and glue, as the chances of the problem recurring seem high still. The thought of the hinges failing and my steel spilling out onto the street is troubling to say the least.

Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

As I suspected, i'm not the only one who's had this problem and Bill Rudolph has already addressed it.

From Bill Rudolph:
"Olie,
Good to hear from you!!
Thanks for the compliments on the guitar.
As for the case, we've gone to an ATA case from another maker.
Your original case maker started using "T" nuts in the lid hinges.
They would also have a new handle.
They may be able to send you some "T" nuts and a handle for next to nothing costwise.
If you use the "T" nuts, ask them for some carpet pieces and hot glue patches over the "T" nuts."

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I talked to Bill at the last steel show and all his guitars come in a stronger, different case.
I would suggest you contact Bill and I'll bet he'd give you a good deal on one of the new cases.

Bill Fisher · From: Oklahoma, USA

My opinion is, he should give you a new case.

Bill

Steve Alcott · From: New York, New York, USA

I'd have contacted Bill before going public.

Tom Wolverton · From: Carpinteria, CA

I recently had a custom case made for my steel. It used short wood screws for the case hardware and they kept coming loose. I'm now of the opinion that a tough case should use rivets, not wood screws.
_________________
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Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

I can see Bill, what your concern is. As I stated, Williams has discontinued these cases, for good reason. I merely sought advice from those more experienced and/or those with the same problem. I have nothing bad to say about Williams guitars, quite the contrary, only these cases. Which, incidentally, were made by GFI. Poor workmanship should be accountable to us, the loyal consumer. In not, then who? I pay good money and want sturdy reliable equipment.
Anyone purchasing a new Williams guitar will receive a much better case than I did.

Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

Furthermore, i do not think Bill Rudolph owes me anything, it was a courtesy that any case was even provided at the price I was charged for such a piece of art. If you are in the market for a new Pedal Steel, you cannot do better IMO, than a Williams.

Danny Bates · From: Fresno, CA. USA

Rivets would be great but T-Nuts is an easy fix..

Just get get the right length screws otherwise they'll stick into the case.

Bill Fisher · From: Oklahoma, USA

Hi, Olie: If I understand you correctly, you are saying the case should not have a guarantee. And, if that's the way you feel, that is fine with me. All I offered was an opinion, and if it were mine, I personally feel I should be given a new case at no-charge. I know nothing about this brand of guitar other than all the favorable comments they receive on the forum. If these comments are true, then I feel excellent protection should be afforded it. Perhaps you don't see it that way. At any rate, I am only offering an opinion, and let's just leave it at that.

Thanks for your time.

Bill

Danny Bates · From: Fresno, CA. USA

Nothing could be worse than a case flipping open and your guitar spilling on the sidewalk.

Olie, luckily you noticed the hardware falling off before something really bad happened.

I think your post may help curtail a tragedy happening to somebody else.

Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

Bill, I apologize, I actually meant to direct my comment to Steve about airing my woes here, i was a bit embarassed that I may have fouled The Williams name by complaining in this forum, still not sure of the wisdom of that decision.

In some situations i would agree with you regarding the consumers right, especially in regards to multi-billion dollar corps, etc. But in this case, Bill Rudolph is a single person in a two person operation, providing a service in a very face to face and straightforward, human way. He provides affordability where he can, and is uncompromising when necessary.
The world of pedal steel playing is wrought with unknowns and risk, most purchases require a certain amount of faith, as you can't hold the items in your hand before you put your money down. I imagine Bill Rudolph's experience with the cases in question was not dissimilar to my own. Not saying I wouldn't like my case to be fixed replaced for free, but I don't feel as though someone owes me that.
All in all, it's a small thing, easier to fix then spend your time complaining about it on the internet Laughing

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I remember mentioning the quality of workmanship on my case for one of my Fessenden guitars to Jerry. He told me that he basically provides it for free (or included in his price) and sees it as a shipping carton that ensures his product gets to the player unharmed. If it works well for you as a long term case solution, that's great; if not, there are many companies that mfg airline (ATA) approved cases, split cases, wheeled cases, etc. in many different configurations and sizes. They will cost you several hundred dollars but if that's important to you for fly gigs or bus/trailer gigs, you will make the investment.

I would never judge a brand based on the quality of the case. Whatever works works, but most mfgrs can't afford to get too fancy without charging extra (and many do).

Personally, I keep a split ATA case for whenever I need some extra protection (and the ability to split the weight for air travel), but usually don't bother for local gigs. For the lighter weight cases, A GOOD, SOLID, WELL-SECURED HANDLE AND SECURE LATCH ARE CRITICAL. I've only had one handle break in over 40 years but it can cause some major damage.
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Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Most steel guitars get transported infrequently, spending the majority of their time in their owner's music room, living room, etc. Therefore, most cases supplied by manufacturers provide basic transportation protection for non-professional use, with occasional transport. And for the majority of guitars, this is perfectly adequate.

Guitars that get loaded in and out of cars, trailers, and buses 150+ times a year can put lots of strain and abuse on cases that really aren't designed for that type of treatment. So the standard-issue cases in those situations should be considered more of a consumable product that periodically needs repair or replacement.

Builders can provide high quality cases upon request, and that will jack up the cost of the instrument to the buyer. And also the weight of the instrument that the buyer has to haul around. And that's the territory we venture into as professional pickers.

Because of weight issues, and because I move my guitars each night from gig to gig, I have high quality, 2-pc. case sets for all my guitars, except for my LeGrande that came with a (heavy) flight case. All the cases by themselves cost between three and four hundred dollars.

It is the mission of the case to die so that the guitar may live. It's not uncommon for many professional guitars go through 3 or 4 cases in their working lives.
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Olie, I don't think anyone took your case issue as a jab at Williams guitars or Bill Rudolph. Matter of fact, you stated in your first post your complete satisfaction with the guitar.
It seemed to me like an observation that begged for comments from other owners as to their experience. Nothing more.

Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

Well even after I put some T nuts in this case, i am in the market for a more reliable one. When I spoke to Bill he said he sells his new ATA cases for $307+shipping. My guitar is an S12 keyless and I do not need a split case (one more thing to forget at the gig Laughing

)

Any other manufacturers I should check out?

Thanks everyone!

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Joe Naylor at Steal Seat.com
Fred Justice at Justice steel guitars
Kevin Hatton they all make quality cases. Winking

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Johnny Baker · From: Southport, Fla

Or, you could do like I did, build you one. They
sold a decent one at Carter, don't get me wrong but
it just wasn't big or solid enough. Bought me some
5/8", wood glue, boom box carpet, and all the
needed hardware. Spent $65.00 18 months ago and
have never regreted it, got me a case with all the
bells and whistles I need.
Good luck.
_________________
I am currently running a Simmons SD10, Peavey Nashville 400 that's packing a 15" BW, Peavey Delta Fex effects processor, and a Match Box. Best rig I've ever run and the sound is truly incredible.

Olie Eshleman · From: Seattle, WA

Well, I used no 6 T nuts and screws. I just cut away the carpet inside the lid and glued it back after i was done. Going to add some pieces of ribbon to keep the lid from opening too far. I should get a few more months out of it. I may build one or buy one, not sure yet. But thank you all for the advice!

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