| Author |
Topic: Bouncing ball tab? |
Bo Legg
|
Posted 30 Mar 2011 12:23 pm |
|
I remember (and I’m sure it is way before your time) when at the theater they would show one of those “ Boys and girls please follow the bouncing ball” sing along songs and even as a young child I could do that and enjoyed it immensely.
I’m sure if they had just played the song and after it quit they would put up all the words on the screen, we as kids or adults would have tried to sing it and butchered the song so badly that we would have all been rolling in the isles with laughter.
This is pretty much synonymous with today’s pedal steel guitar tab except that a lot of us end up cussing instead of laughing.
Why don’t you folks that transcribe to tab make a little effort and sell the newbie something really useful like “boys and girls please follow the bouncing ball” tab.
I’m talking about tab complete enough that the person who transcribed nor anyone else has to play one lick of it and you can load it into BIAB and come out with a notation correct good song.
The Newbie is already impressed by the steel playing so why not impress him or her with the tab he or she purchases as well.
I hate to say it so crudely but in the vernacular of today's young newbie "pedal steel guitar tab totally sucks"! |
|
|
 |
Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
|
Posted 30 Mar 2011 6:54 pm
|
|
| Steel guitar Tab is what it is and works perfectly well when accompanied by an mp3 of the steel part. You have to admit it works 100 times better than slowin down a record to half speed and then havin to transpose the change in pitch to the correct pitch. I can't think of too many of our steel guitar heros that don't use it as a teaching aid. |
|
|
|
Franklin
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 4:45 am
|
|
| Tab is easier, so is painting by numbers....Paul |
|
|
|
Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 9:06 am
|
|
Paul,
you hit the nail!!
All that you can find out without TAB, makes you a stronger player!
regards, Johan |
|
|
|
Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 12:25 pm
|
|
Don't get me wrong guys, I agree with you both, sure your gonna benifit from figuring out stuff on your own and I wouldn't advise anyone to try and learn pedal steel guitar by tab alone, but why not take advantage of every tool that's out there, and tab is but one tool that's available. Furthermore, I'd be willin to bet that there are a few players out there that might have given up on pedal steel had it not been for tabs, especially before computers and the Internet.
Paul, I'm curious, did you ever use tabs when you were startin out on pedal steel? I know a lot of guys here on the Forum started out with Winnie's book, me included. |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 12:33 pm
|
|
Andy,
You are correct.
There are few players as accomplished as Paul Franklin, Buddy Emmons, Lloyd Green and etc. who do not need any help to play this instrument, but the majority of players, myself included, need all the help they can get.
And correctly written tablature is one of those helps.
When I write tab, I like to make it a lesson in playing the instrument as well as playing the song it is written for.
There are a lot of bedroom players out there who you will never see on a stage and they receive a lot of satisfaction in being able to play this goofy instrumnet and depend on tab in order to do so.  |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 12:48 pm
|
|
There are a lot of us who are otherwise great folks and most times a joy to be around who have wonderful families, pay our taxes, go to church, help out other folks in need who have to (bless our hearts) paint by numbers, use tab and pitch correction to be able to Paint, sing and play a musical instrument.
I count myself among those for whatever reason who are less talented and in some cases have no talent at all when it comes to art or music. But as useless as we are (we as a group) buy the most musical equipment, purchase the CDs of the more talented, purchase the concert tickets, hire most of the music teachers and buy and try to use all that music tab that reeks with inadequacy for lack of effort on the transcribers part. |
|
|
|
Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 12:56 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
There are a lot of us who are otherwise great folks and most times a joy to be around who have wonderful families, pay our taxes, go to church, help out other folks in need who have to (bless our hearts) paint by numbers, use tab and pitch correction to be able to Paint, sing and play a musical instrument.
|
In this case I think TAB can help with your needs.
I didn't want to upsett. As a musicteacher, by profession, I let students write down themselves what they learned, and when they want to use TAB, it's fine to me. Each has his own way of registration, learning and remembering. As it comes to musical developments and ways to learn and understand a musical instrument and music, TAB should play a minor role, in my opinion.
regards, Johan |
|
|
|
Stuart Legg
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 2:45 pm
|
|
| Andy Sandoval wrote: |
| Steel guitar Tab is what it is and works perfectly well when accompanied by an mp3 of the steel part. |
Andy I'm sorry but I have to say that tab presented in that manor is the most imperfect learning tool I have ever seen.
I think you'll find that most folks who buy that kind of tab never learn but a small portion of it and then put it away in a box forever somewhere.
More tab would be sold, used and be well excepted if it were transcribed in a manor that was notation correct in such a way a line moves along the tab sounding out the notes as the tab moves along.
As opposed to over here is the MP3 and over here is the tab, try if you can to match them.
Yeah but we'll talk you through it. Pardon me while I spit my chew out with laughter.
Do you guys who make these talk CDs ever listen to them. It sounds like R2-D2 teaching the bible. |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 4:36 pm
|
|
| Johan Jansen wrote: |
| Quote: |
| There are a lot of us who have to (bless our hearts) paint by numbers, use tab and pitch correction to be able to Paint, sing and play a musical instrument. |
In this case I think TAB can help with your needs. |
Johan It should have but it didn't because it was transcribed into a tab form that had to be tolerated at best with a no choice exception of it's glaring shortcomings. So I relied on my music theory knowledge to fake it till I could make it by playing with feeling within the theory and learning all the little rule tricks you need regarding country songs.
Not being able to gain from tab my playing didn't include the licks you heard on all the Country CDs.
Could you play like Buddy here and Paul here etc.? I had no clue. I play like Bo here and Bo there. So sue me.
I discovered long before I started playing steel that country music was the simplest form of music on the planet and if you didn't have to play things note for note you could be tone deaf and play in a country band. All you needed was a good electronic tuner, talk and apply your music theory knowledge and they would think you were a genius. |
|
|
|
Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 4:45 pm
|
|
I may have chosen the wrong words when I said.
| Andy Sandoval wrote: |
| Steel guitar Tab is what it is and works perfectly well when accompanied by an mp3 of the steel part. |
What I meant to say is that tab works better when accompanied by the steel part on an mp3. I've also seen tab with the music notation above the tab which helps those that can read music notation. I know it's not perfect but if it can save time tryin to figure out licks and phrases then that's that much more time a student has to devote to becoming a better player.
Bo and Stuart, I get what you guys are sayin but until the " follow the bouncing ball" tab makes regular tab obsolete, it's all we've got right now. |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 5:53 pm
|
|
Andy, Bingo! You got it. The bouncing ball is already here click Here
If folks would break down and spend $60 and learn how to use the software we could have an endless supply of understandable useful steel guitar tab.
Imagine the endless possibilities for sales of tab and an excellent way to share clear and foolproof musical ideas.
I would love to see an addition to the topic section to include this wonderful program. I believe this is such a useful tool for a wide verity of uses that if it caught on it could become the norm as a Steel guitar music information vehicle. |
|
|
|
Dana Blodgett
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 6:07 pm Bouncing ball tab
|
|
In my opinion, tabs work pretty well for me and save time. It beats wearing out the old vinyl LP's tryin' to learn parts as I used to do. I have also worn out cassette decks trying to figure out parts in songs. Nowadays, with modern equipment learning by "ear" is easier. I think some tabs are better than others.I like the way that Erv does his, for those of you who have never seen his tabs, most are tabbed out on the bottom with lyrics above that and musical notation above that with chords above that. So if I want to alter the song from a chordal fashion I can easily move to single notes if the song calls for it or if I want to vary it slightly.
Some tabs that I've seen could use a little more symbolism also depending on who's doing the tabbing, explanations of which pedals and knee levers called into play vary. An example of that is the "D" lever and "E" lever are the same function sometimes,same thing with the "V" lever is the same as the "X" lever. Greg Cutshaw explains what each knee lever does above each tab so you aren't guessing. I guess maybe a little more uniformity for designation of the levers could help.(Not tryin to re-start that argument either)Fortunately I have the older "Emmons" set up so its not too much of a problem.Tabs work for me, save time but it doesn't hurt to be able to read music notation plus have a good "ear."
I've played "lead" guitar for years and felt that it was important to develop my own style and to be able to improvise over chord changes. I feel the same about the pedal steel. I view tabs as "exercises" and a li'l exercise never hurt anyone. I think if tabs work for you, then use them...if they don't then don't use them!
_________________
Dana Blodgett
From Los Osos,Ca.
'74 ShoBud 6140 3+4, Martins HD28,D-12-28, D-15,'65 Gibson LG-1, '77 Gibson Les Paul special dbl cut p-90's, Les Paul Special p-100's,Les paul Special Hybrid(maple top) hbkr's,'68 Fender Strat reissue, Fender Squire Jazz bass,Epi mandolin,Epi Wilshire '66 reissue, Kamaka Concert uke, 70's Kamaka Soprano Uke, Fender Super amp, Ampeg ba112 bass amp,60's harmony banjo,'00 Gibson SG Supreme |
|
|
|
Dana Blodgett
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 6:14 pm Bouncing ball tab
|
|
Bo, I just went to the Tabledit site and thought that was pretty cool! Do they have that for the E9 tuning or C6 steel? I didn't find it
_________________
Dana Blodgett
From Los Osos,Ca.
'74 ShoBud 6140 3+4, Martins HD28,D-12-28, D-15,'65 Gibson LG-1, '77 Gibson Les Paul special dbl cut p-90's, Les Paul Special p-100's,Les paul Special Hybrid(maple top) hbkr's,'68 Fender Strat reissue, Fender Squire Jazz bass,Epi mandolin,Epi Wilshire '66 reissue, Kamaka Concert uke, 70's Kamaka Soprano Uke, Fender Super amp, Ampeg ba112 bass amp,60's harmony banjo,'00 Gibson SG Supreme |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 6:48 pm
|
|
Yes they do or you can enter your own copedent.
Your tab plays in midi with a line that moves along the tab.
It also puts the correct notation above the tab.
I save the midi file of the the tab and import it into BIAB and make a musical arrangement around it.
You can import midi songs into the TablEdit and it lays them out in tab. That leaves you just to arrange the notes to fit your choice of position on the fretboard.
Stuart Legg is a master of this program and has done some amazing things with it such as taking licks from BIAB and importing them into TablEdit and adding harmony, counter point etc.. I can learn in minutes complex licks that would normally with other methods take so much time that I would give up on it.
 |
|
|
|
Dana Blodgett
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 9:59 pm bouncing ball tab
|
|
Bo, thanks this really cool. I've never seen this before until now. Thanks, Dana
_________________
Dana Blodgett
From Los Osos,Ca.
'74 ShoBud 6140 3+4, Martins HD28,D-12-28, D-15,'65 Gibson LG-1, '77 Gibson Les Paul special dbl cut p-90's, Les Paul Special p-100's,Les paul Special Hybrid(maple top) hbkr's,'68 Fender Strat reissue, Fender Squire Jazz bass,Epi mandolin,Epi Wilshire '66 reissue, Kamaka Concert uke, 70's Kamaka Soprano Uke, Fender Super amp, Ampeg ba112 bass amp,60's harmony banjo,'00 Gibson SG Supreme |
|
|
|
Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 11:46 pm
|
|
Ho Bo, this way it's grown'up Tab, that indeed could be helpfull!
Thanks for sharing!
regards, Johan |
|
|
|
CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
|
Posted 31 Mar 2011 11:57 pm
|
|
tabs are, like some say here, a short cut & quite handy
most important tho' is to actually study each part as to understand/know just what is bein" played
i've written the tabs to many of Paul's courses which by writting them also helps the "sinking in " process
just being a parrot or a number painter is not where it's at
i still spend mucho time slowin down & playin' back tunes dozens of times learnin' by ear
quite time consuming
the shortcoming i find in ear learnin' is figuring out the right positions that are actually being played
that's the clincher !
Last edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 1 Apr 2011 4:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
|
Posted 1 Apr 2011 12:15 am
|
|
James said:
| Quote: |
the shortcoming i find in ear learnin' is that i figuring out the right positions that are actually being played
that's the clincher !
|
Now James, what's the problem with that?
Are you making music or playing copycat?  |
|
|
|
CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
|
Posted 1 Apr 2011 5:06 am
|
|
| Quote: |
| Are you making music or playing copycat? |
both actually 
what i meant about finding the right positions is that they're not always easy to find right off the bat
some songs like WMB by Mike Johnson for example, i hear & find the notes ok but the positions i found them on at first were not right
considering the speed of the tune & the pickin' Mike is using "practical" positions, in order to execute properly w: speed & comfort
here's what i found by ear so i could tab it out :
http://www.youtube.com/user/SteelGuitarFrance?feature=mhum#p/u/1/XJrb1FBl1Ng
same happens w: chords too - sometimes they can be "out of the box" rather than "standard" positions
makes for more fun & learning
Last edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 4 Apr 2011 9:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
|
Posted 1 Apr 2011 9:00 am
|
|
There seems to be an assumption by some folks that everyone learns in the same manner... or should(!)
We all process information slightly differently, some are very visual and some more auditory. It follows that "tab" is more useful to some than others, and also that it's easier for some to "hear" licks and phrases and figure them out, and more difficult for others.
Over the 30 years plus I've been playing, I've been exposed to untold heaps of licks, ideas, and information, and with the way my brain works, I simply can't remember and utilize it all. For me, tab has become an invaluable way of saving and cataloging all that stuff for when I want to come and revisit it. For instance, I have loads of tabbed ideas from my time at Jeff Newman's school in the late 70's that are just a joy to play through, for the memories and to remind me of some simple things I just don't do any more. Like Crowbear, I've tabbed out some of Franklin's GREAT talk style lessons, and can quickly glance through a page of ideas for stimulation and fresh "meat" without having to listen to the whole tape again. (And thanks, Paul, for sharing so many great ideas!)
| Quote: |
| Do you guys who make these talk CDs ever listen to them. It sounds like R2-D2 teaching the bible. |
I'm doing a series of instructional courses now on various player's styles, and I'm using the "talk tape" format for several reasons.
Many have requested it who seem to dislike tab.
It allows instant demonstration of alternative positions and phrasings, which are one of the main things I want to teach.
Hearing a phrase played, and then described not-for-note stimulates different areas of the brain and memory than the written page.
I do suggest that students have blank tab and WRITE their own as they go through the lesson, specifically to stimulate the other portions of the brain and memory.
Over time, the "talk tape" format stimulates the imaginary visualization of the fretboard, pedals and levers in a way similar to and encouraging the imagination of improvised playing.
A bouncing ball form of tab would certainly help to keep place with the music. It seems like it would be a lot of work to implement in a video, although I've seen it done with song lyrics. Perhaps the scrolling tab that some guitar videos use would be close? |
|
|
|
John Wilson
From:
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
|
Posted 1 Apr 2011 12:04 pm Do you remember?
|
|
Hey Bo!
Your bouncing ball thread really got me thinkin'
Do you remember the "Sing along with Mitch" craze back in the late 50's? I believe Mitch Mitchell was his name. He used a bouncing ball when he posted the sing-along lyrics on his TV show.
I was a kid and my parents used to watch TV and sing along. I think I might still have one of his old LP's laying around in my parents box o' stuff. He was the polar opposite of the Kingston Trio.
I still remember: "When the Red Red Robin, goes Bob Bob Bobbin along............" Yow! 
El Reyo cornballo deluxo!
John
_________________
Customer: "Waiter, how do you prepare your chicken?"
Waiter: "We usually tell them they're not going to make it." |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 1 Apr 2011 12:56 pm
|
|
John I think so. But I don't know if we are talking about the same show. I vaguely remember a show that featured Mitch Miller seems like maybe in 60's or 70's.
I've noticed that the churches have mostly all done away with the hymnals and went to follow the bouncing ball.
I really see no down side to using TablEdit.
You just type in your tab and the program plays it with a line that follows along the tab. You simply save the file so others can download it to their TablEdit. You don't need to explain it or send an MP3 of the song with your steel pickin on it.
You just push play and it plays along with a line moving across the whole tab or set it so that it loops one section of the song. It's fool proof. |
|
|
|
Bo Legg
|
Posted 1 Apr 2011 1:37 pm
|
|
Stuart and I have 2 web sites that are not in use right now that we plan dedicating to TablEdit files so if you would like we can upload your TablEdit files to the site and you are free to use the url to post on the Steel Guitar Forum. It would be faster for you to use a free program like Box.net to upload and then post that url on the SGF.
If you want to sell your TablEdit tab you can handle it all through email as just one of the many options.
Also Stuart and I will be glad to furnish additional technical help with your TablEdit program and share with you our discoveries over the past years of the seemingly endless possibilities this program offers.
By hooking this up with BIAB I think this combination is one of the most versatile fast paths to learning all genre of music on the steel guitar I've ever seen and heard.
Here is a sample of TablEdit tab uploaded to Box.Net of a blues riff imported from BIAB. But since you don't have TablEdit I guess just those that do will enjoy this. 
Click Here |
|
|
|
Stuart Legg
|
Posted 1 Apr 2011 3:56 pm
|
|
OK Bo has teased you enough.
If you just want to download TabEdit tab and don't want to write your own tab TablEdit offers a free TablEdit reader.Click Here just click on the "tefv.exe" if you use windows and it's a simple install and then you can see and hear the tab that Bo Posted above. Look a little further down the site page for you Mac folks.
OK lets all of us at least get this free reader and if your into writing your own tab and doing a lot of other cool stuff plop down the $60 and get the full blown version with free updates. |
|
|
|
