A beginners pedal steel - what should I buy?

Peter Haagerup · From: Denmark

Hi - I'm new to this forum, and I am considering to begin playing the pedal steel guitar. However, I have no experience on such an instrument. Nor can I play slide guitar. I do play "normal" electric and acoustic guitar and I have done that since I was 7-8 years old (I am 23 now). Unfortunately I haven't played much for a long time, so I am not an expert - especially not when it comes to solos.

So, about a year ago, I started listening to country rock and later some "real" country as well and I immediately fell in love with the pedal steel guitar sound. For a long time I have wondered how cool it would be to play like that myself.

Some of my favourite steel players are J.D. Maness and Al Perkins. I would love to play country music with heavy use of pedal steel guitar like the Desert Rose Band. I am a big fan of the western country(rock) - I also like Poco, Eagles, The Flying Burrito Brothers and almost every album of Chris Hillman.

I know nothing about pedal steel guitars so I would like to know what type I need to play what I want. Some have two necks - others only one, some have a lot of pedals and others only have a few and so on. And what about tunings? And some great instructions on DVD and/or tabs would be nice...

By the way - I live in Denmark. I found only one dealer of pedal steel guitars... That dealer is selling a StageOne/ZumSteel - is that any good and can it be used for the type of music I would like to play (see above)? I would like it to be as cheap as possible but it has to sound good and be relatively easy to play for a beginner like me.

Thanks for your time Smile

Bob Vantine · From: Freeville, New York, USA

Hello Peter ......

Smile

I have a StageOne that I bought new last June from Doug and I will never regret it . The price was right , as well as the quality ,service and playability being top notch . Smile

I do not know anything about customs regulations & shipping ,but I do know that availability can be as much of an issue as the price of the guitar itself .

Smile

Good luck shopping & IMHO you can't go wrong with the StageOne.....E9th tuning ,by the way should give you all that you need for a long,long time . Smile

***Bob***
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EQUIPMENT:
"TEAK" ZUM STAGE-ONE Steel / C6th Lapsteel
Peavey NV112 , CLASSIC and EFX112 amps
Peavey Guitars

Doug Ferguson · From: Burnet, Texas, USA

From what I've seen, the StageOne is probably one of the best quality, entry level steel guitars out there. The only drawback I believe is that the setup is permanent, meaning you can't change or customize the tuning or copedant. If it is set up as an E9 Emmons for instance, with 3 pedals and 4 knee levers, that's how it will be period. Not that it's a bad thing! You can probably play and learn for many years on this setup. My recommendation is to go with something like the 3-4 setup I mentioned above as a minimum. I started with a Sho-Bud Maverick with 3 pedals and no knees and it really was limited, although I didn't know that in the beginning. But it stunted my growth for the years I owned it. If you can, get the most you can afford and even wait til you've saved enough to get a pro model used. As you progress, your tastes may change, but at least you'll have all the changers that they'll be talking about in the learning courses, and that makes a huge difference, in my opinion.

The E9 is probably what you are hearing the most in the music you referred to. Double neck guitars typically have the E9 on the front neck and C6 tuning on the back neck, which is used more in the jazz/swing music. Typically the first three pedals are making changes on the front neck, and pedals 4-X are changing strings on the back neck. Single neck guitars often have the E9 tuning, but there is also extended E9 (12 strings) and universal tuning. So you'll want to make sure you are getting the E9 tuning if that's what you want to learn, of course.

For learning material, I started with the Winnie Winston book on steel guitar and it does a pretty nice job of getting a green newbie started. Once you've mastered that book, you'll be playing pretty good and will be ready for more modern learning material. Jeffran.com is a good place to go for quality learning material. Also Paul Franklin has some quality courses that come highly recommended.

I'm sure others here will give you some better advice than I can on the learning materials as well as what you should buy in a steel guitar.
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CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Welcome to this Great Forum Peter
you done come to the right ward Winking

the ZumSteel Stage One is bang for € - one of the best starter psgs out there
since there's one already in DK, go for it !

http://www.stageonesteelguitars.com/

the E9 tuning on it is right up the alley of the artists you mention

the Winnie Winston book will you good as well

Good luck on your journey Winking

& keep us posted

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Nothing wrong with a starter model like a Stage One or GFI.

But you should also know that it is often possible to find an older single-10 professional-grade pedal steel for 'roughly' comparable dollars on this forum or elsewhere.

Brands I like that are frequently reasonable like this:

BMI (I have one)
MSA (I have had one)
Dekley (I haven't had one, but I've played a few, and they were each very fine guitars, IMO)
Remington (sometimes I'm shocked how reasonable they are)
Carter (yes, I have seen pro-model Carter S-10s in the 1200-1400 range)

For example, here's an MSA 12-string (3+4) for $1300 - http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=202154. If I wasn't awash in pedal steels right now, I'd buy it. I've seen Flynn, Thomas, and Fessendens for $1500 or less just in the last day or two (I think they're sold now).

Careful, intelligently applied patience is rewarded.

Bob Vantine · From: Freeville, New York, USA

all great ideas & info , but I believe Doug has a dealer in Denmark .... would have to check his website.... that might make a StageOne easier to obtain .

Again good luck , welcome & have fun !
_________________
EQUIPMENT:
"TEAK" ZUM STAGE-ONE Steel / C6th Lapsteel
Peavey NV112 , CLASSIC and EFX112 amps
Peavey Guitars

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

If your local dealer has a Stage One in stock, check what his price is compared to the US dollar price. Then think about shipping, customs, any import type taxes, etc. That Stage One will look real good. It's one of the better entry level guitars as was mentioned. And don't worry that the tuning is fixed and you can't change it around. What is on there should be just fine.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Steve English · From: Baja, Arizona

Before you do anything, I would contact this gentleman immediately:

http://www.steelguitardanmark.dk/

Very Happy

Benjamin Wolfram · From: Victoria, Australia

I recently went through the same thing although I'd been playing normal guitar regularly.

I started off by learning to play lap steel (with a big pedal steel size bar) and spent a good six months on that. Then after my teacher saw I was doing quite well on that he said I should be more than ready to tackle the pedal steel and now I'm on that too and have both instruments at my disposal. If I had to advise anyone I'd say do it exactly like that, I felt like it helped me heaps to be comfortable with the steel bar and fingerpick actions on a lap steel so that when I went to the pedal I was only trying to work the pedals/knees/volume-pedal, not trying to learn all of that at the same time as learning the bar and picking for the first time also. I think that would have done my head in.

Just my take on it, but I think it was a great way to go, and a good way to see if the whole "slide" thing is something you'll take to as a player without shelling out for a pedal steel.

Then when I went to buy a pedal steel, I knew I wanted to play one so I didn't just get a beginner model I got something I know will last me forever (unless I want a double neck of course).

Danny Bates · From: Fresno, CA. USA

I have a Stage One. It's a great lightweight guitar. I say go for it! Smile

Arne Odegard · From: Norway

When I started 3 years ago I bought a Carter D10. Best decision I ever made.
After playing the E9 neck for the first two years I tried the C6 neck and I'm having just as much fun if not more with that.
If you can.... find a used Carter. They are great guitars.

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

Peter Haagerup · From: Denmark

Thanks for all the replies Smile

The price for the StageOne in Denmark including taxes is $2621 (converted from DKK to USD using Google) which is quite a lot of money compared to the $949 US price including US tax and shipping and that even includes a hardshell case which is not included in the danish price Sad

If it is possible to buy the StageOne from the US, the shipping costs to Denmark and import tax will of course make it more expensive, but not anywhere near $2621.

The US price is still not what I would call cheap when I have never touched an instrument like that before. Is it possible to buy a used StageOne in good condition for a price like $500-$700 or is it so good that nobody want to sell it? Smile

hehe

I have read about the lap steel and found a dealer who sells one in Denmark - a Gretsch G5715 Lap Steel Black Sparkle - the price converted to USD is $504.

I would rather skip the lap steel and buy a pedal steel even if I am not going to use the pedals for the first months or even first year of training. I am totally sure that I want to play a real pedal steel in the end, if I'm going to play anything like that.

So at this moment, I am going for a used StageOne that can be shipped to Denmark for a reasonable price, if that is possible in any way.

Also, I have a spare electric guitar (cheap strat copy) - is it possible to convert it to a lap steel like some people have done with acoustic guitars? If that is possible, it could be an even cheaper way to start. Then I just need a solid steel bar instead of the hollow one I have right now?

And another question: How different is it to play lap steel compared to slide guitar, besides holding the instrument and slide/bar differently? Is it the same tuning and stuff like that or do I need to start all over? I would like to play slide guitar as well and may start by doing that before stepping up to a lap or pedal steel.

At this moment I have a Dunlop 220 slide for regular slide guitar playing. That fits my ring finger, but I would like a heavier, smaller one that would fit my little finger - the 220 is way too large for that. Any advice on that? There seem to be a lot of different materials, shapes and sizes available. Also I would like to know if it is easier to play with a "rail shaped" tonebar compared to the round ones when talking about lap/pedal steel playing?

Again - thanks a lot for all your replies so far Smile

Danny Bates · From: Fresno, CA. USA

Yes, you can get a set of steel guitar strings and a nut riser and convert your guitar to a lap steel. I also suggest a regular steel guitar bar. You'll soon be on your way. Smile

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

Hi Peter!

Henning Kock is definitely THE guy for steel in Denmark.

You could also try joining the Swedish steel forum (no cost, lots of Danish, Norwegian and Finnish members as well) and place a want-ad; second-hand pro single 10's will sometimes sell as low as around 10-12,000 DKK here, and now and then good student models like the Stage One, GFI student or the Carter Starter turn up for sale as well. Janne Lindgren in Stockholm sometimes has a few in stock, and is a GFI dealer. There's also a newly opened steel forum in nearby Germany, which could be a good source.

Otherwise, importing directly from the US is a big money-saver, I have done this twice with no trouble whatsoever.

http://steelgitarr.forum24.se/steelgitarr.html

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Bob Vantine · From: Freeville, New York, USA

PETER ....
used StageOne PSGs are few & far between for good reason . When one shows up they appear to be the older style that came from Bruce directly from ZUM and not thru Doug . These older ones "might not be" 3+4 like the newer style . Oh Well

As far as your electric guitar ,there are metal "nuts" that are offered to raise the strings like on a dobro/resonator guitar . These are made to set over the existing nut ,so you can go back to regular guitar . **However these put a serious strain on the neck of your guitar**. Oh Well

As far as tunings ..... that would depend on your wants , needs & likings .Open tunings run the gambent & also can cause additional stress on the instrument depending on which tuning is used .(I rescued a round neck resonator guitar *tuned an octave high "E "* ,from someone who should've known better,but didn't..... Rolling Eyes

still can't figure out how strings or neck didn't snap !) Mad

GOOD LUCK !
_________________
EQUIPMENT:
"TEAK" ZUM STAGE-ONE Steel / C6th Lapsteel
Peavey NV112 , CLASSIC and EFX112 amps
Peavey Guitars

Ronnie Boettcher · From: Brunswick Ohio, USA

Peter, I am not in a position to evaluate steel guitars that I have not seen, or played. But I have a question for you. Can you play a $50 6-string guitar, as well as a better quality, higher cost guitar. It is a proven fact, in any musical instrument, the better quality, the easier to play. I would just say, find a steel guitar with 3 pedals, and 4 knee levers, as a minimum. If not, like me, you will want one in a very short time. Ronnie
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Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142

Peter Haagerup · From: Denmark

Thanks again for quick replies.

Ronnie, I believe you are right about the cost vs easy to play thing. That is also one of the main reasons I am going for the StageOne instead of some old used beat-up out of tune cr*p from eBay. Especially because I have no idea how to fix it if it's broken...

Right now, before I buy a pedal steel, I want to get a little feel of the steel guitar thing, so I listened to your advice and found the following:

Slide Guitar Extenstion Nut
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Nuts,_saddles/Resonator_nuts,_saddles/Slide_Guitar_Extension_Nut.html
and tone bar:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Accessories/Capos,_slides/Shubb-Pearse_Guitar_Steel.html

of which I bought the Model 2 version because it should be a "favourite" for 6-string lap steel guitars - I guess that means that it should be fine on a standard 6-string guitar converted to a "lap steel" with the extension nut.

I bought these items because the price was reasonable - also showing the price in DKK and shipping to Denmark was not a problem at all. I do know that the price is not the same after calculating the import taxes, but there's nothing to do about it.

What do you think? I hope it was the right stuff to buy... I am going to try it out anyway Smile

hehe

So any ideas on where to go from here? I would like some learning materials for 6-string slide or lap steel guitar which will let me get a feel for the playing and maybe some nice licks as well.

Is there any specific "you-can't-go-wrong-with-that" or "must-have" tab books and/or DVD's you would recommend? I would rather pay a little more to get the right book or DVD than getting something that does not help me at all.

Doug Ferguson mentioned the Winnie Winston book on steel guitar - can I use that to learn 6-string lap steel or is it mainly for the pedal steel?

Thanks a lot - any advice is appreciated Smile

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

Hey! That was easy! Very Happy

Not much expense in converting your guitar with a raised nut and a bar and picks.
You made the right choice, since this will get you started right away!

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

I would say that Winnie's book is really devoted to pedal steel and would be frustrating to learn from without pedals or knee levers. There is a growing body of instructional material for nonpedal steel that would be better. Some is at www.scottysmusic.com , some available from forumite Mike Neer, and there are several others as well. Poke around the non-pedal steel area of the Forum and you'll trip over them sooner or later.
Good luck and enjoy the ride!
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Peter Nylund · From: Finland

Peter, you could get in touch with Ted Nesbitt at Rainbow Music Ireland. He usually has a couple of guitars for sale. I know because I've bought two from him Laughing

Regards, (the other) Peter
_________________
I know my playing is a bit pitchy, but at least my tone sucks

Thomas Ludwig · From: Augsburg, Germany

Peter,
I also started with a 6-string-guitar with nut extension which was so much fun that I changed to an single 8 string lapsteel then to a D-8 console steel.
Finally I made the step to a D-10 pedal steel. Smile

Thomas

Peter Haagerup · From: Denmark

Thanks for all the advice so far Smile

I am now (trying) to play dobro style licks on my strat copy with nut extender. Some days ago I also bought some dunlop metal fingerpicks and some plastic thumbpicks, so I am learning to play with those as well. In the first few days it was very hard to play with the fingerpicks, but I am getting more and more used to it now. The hardest thing is to mute the strings after picking to avoid weird sounds when doing solo stuff, but fortunately I am getting better and better - and the better it sounds, the more fun it is to play Smile

I am still looking for some decent lessons, so I bought the Jerry Douglas DVD that some of you might know. He sure knows what to do with a dobro Smile

However, most of the stuff on that DVD does not have the country flavor I love so much. I am more into Al Perkins kind of playing.

Eventually I want to play pedal steel - the dobro stuff is also very cool, but right know I am mostly playing to get used to the steel and fingerpicks etc. until I feel ready to move on to a StageOne Pedal Steel or similar.

So - I have a couple of questions:

Most pedal steel players and many lap steel players are using a volume pedal, so of course I want to learn how to play with that as well. What would you recommend? Can I just buy a "cheap" high-impedance Boss pedal or do I want something else? I do not know a lot about volume pedals. I guess it is a good idea to find a lower profile one that will match the height of the pedals on the pedal steel guitar?

And my second question: I am going to move into an apartment - it is not very soundproof, so most of the time I will probably not use my amp. How loud is an unplugged pedal steel compared to an unplugged regular solid body electric guitar? If it is about the same, I guess it is no problem to plug the pedal steel into the volume pedal and then into an amp with headphone output so I can practice without complaints from my neighbors Very Happy

Probably a stupid question, but I have never been near a pedal steel before so I have no idea at all. Also, I simply hate when other people can hear me practicing, so it is very important to me that I can play either unplugged or with headphones.

Thanks - Any advice is appreciated Smile

Elton Smith · From: Texas, USA

I say get you a real pedal steel and be done with it.They are not cheap and never will be.You will save money by not climbing the ladder.These guitars will last you a life time.You will no be sorry.
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