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Topic: A pedal woes. It won't stay in tune |
Randy Brown
From:
Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 14 Mar 2011 11:20 am |
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I've been having trouble with my A pedal. I can tune it up perfectly to my peterson, then play a few minutes, and it will be dreadfully flat. So I'll tighten the nylon nuts a bit to tune it back up, only to find a few more minutes later it is way sharp. This goes on all night. It seems like something is temporarily getting hung somewhere and it occasionally gets unhung, only to get hung up again every now and then.
It is a Carter U-12. I thought it might be a string ball-end hung in the changer, but I can't see anything obvious in there. Any suggestions?
Thanks! |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 14 Mar 2011 11:59 am
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The lower return spring might not have enough tension, and is not holding the lower in place during a raise.
This is causing you to tighten the nylon, but then later on the lower stays put, so the string is sharp.
I've seen this happen on steels, and it was cured by lubricating the changer and tightening the lower return spring. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 14 Mar 2011 1:58 pm
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Do you have two pulls ( strings) on the A Pedal , do they both go out of tune ?
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Randy Brown
From:
Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 14 Mar 2011 2:24 pm
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Richard, I was wondering if it might be a spring problem. So is the lower being activated as well as the raise during a normal pull? I can try tightening the spring(s) to see if that would help.
Tony, yes, 2 pulls. [I believe they both go out of tune, but I need to take a closer look next time it happens to be sure.... the higher one is more noticeable because I use it more.] CORRECTION: string 5 is the one which goes out of tune.
This gives me some good direction for what to look for. Sounds like I need to determine if both raises are going out of tune or just one. If it's both, I suppose that would mean either both springs (coincidence?) are loose or it's something else. I'll pay more attention when it happens and take notes
Last edited by Randy Brown on 16 Mar 2011 6:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 14 Mar 2011 3:01 pm
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Randy, a few thins can be going on..
if it's one string, is it a newer string ? How long ago did the Steel NOT have an issue ? Try tuning the string then tugging the string with your fingers, does it hold tune or stretch ? You really need to determine if it is the string itself that is bad, the wrap at the post, or if there is a spring issue...chase the easy stuff first.... Don't be afraid to put a new string on....
t
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 14 Mar 2011 3:01 pm
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Randy, a few things can be going on..
if it's one string, is it a newer string ? How long ago did the Steel NOT have an issue ? Try tuning the string then tugging the string with your fingers, does it hold tune or stretch ? You really need to determine if it is the string itself that is bad, the wrap at the post, or if there is a spring issue...chase the easy stuff first.... Don't be afraid to put a new string on....
t
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 14 Mar 2011 10:39 pm
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Dont forget to check the slack in the rods first.
I'll bet its overtightened.
You may need to add more pedal distance, or move a rod up to increase leverage, but always have a bit of wiggle room on those nylon hex tuners!
Clete |
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Randy Brown
From:
Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2011 5:56 am
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I put some new strings on there (the others were probably 2-3 months old). I'll play it more tonight to see if that helps.
Clete, I did already try adding pedal distance but that didn't help - I haven't tried changing the leverage yet. thanks for the suggestion.
Thanks for the replies. I'll post again when I have time to experiment with it. |
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Randy Brown
From:
Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2011 4:30 pm
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Still doing it. New strings didn't help. And it is actually only the 5th string raise which is affected. I believe it is either the spring, or possibly the fact that it's getting bound up with the change on pedal 7. I've noticed the P7 pull rod moves when I press the A pedal.
Looks like the way to adjust the spring is to cut a coil off of it, which means it's a one-way operation. So I'm trying to avoid that if possible, but will certainly try it if needed. Any further suggestions?
Thanks! |
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Bill Stroud
From:
Dresden, Tennessee, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 15 Mar 2011 5:07 pm Over riding
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| Sounds like you are over riding the cam, in oterwords, the nylon tuner on your rod may be too tight back it off until you have about a 1/32 slack then tune your B string up then try your A pedal and see how far out you are, then tune it up making sure you are not de-tuning the string in open position, if you can't tune it up without over riding the cam, change your stop postion where the pedal when depressed travels to. Hope this helps. |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 16 Mar 2011 12:02 am
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| Randy Brown wrote: |
| ...it's getting bound up with the change on pedal 7. I've noticed the P7 pull rod moves when I press the A pedal... |
Although it could be the spring, most likely your instinct is correct.
Try backing off all the other tuners affecting string 5 as well.
Pay close attention to what is happening mechanically as you move the changer by hand. If a rod is binding, then adjusting the spring wont solve the problem.
Most tuning issues are probably caused from rod binding, overtightened tuners, bad strings or gunk in the changer rather than return spring malfunction, IMO.
Clete |
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Randy Brown
From:
Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 16 Mar 2011 6:16 am
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I cleaned up the pulls on string 5. Pedals A,C,7 and LKV were all fighting over space. For example I moved the A pedal puller over a smidge to make sure it had a straight shot. Also installed another nylon bushing to make sure the rods weren't rubbing together. I believe this was probably my fault since I had previously changed which puller slot the C pedal and P7 were hooked to. Anyway, it seems to be operating smoother now. I can't say for sure yet, but the problem seems to have gone away so far.
I appreciate all the input on this thread! Thanks guys! |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 16 Mar 2011 6:29 am
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| Here is a link to something on my web site that I think about when attacking most problems that these contraptions present to us. |
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Randy Brown
From:
Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 16 Mar 2011 6:46 am
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Jim thanks for the link. This is a great article!
By the way, I'm assuming that if I tighten the springs (i.e. cut off some coils) it makes the changes stiffer. Is that correct? I don't want them any stiffer than they have to be, but obviously I'll gladly make that trade-off for tuning stability.
Thanks! |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 16 Mar 2011 7:13 am
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| Shortening the lower return spring only makes the lowers stiffer- the stiffness of the raises is totally dependent on the position of the pullrod in the changer and the bellcrank and the gauge of the string in modern all-pull guitars unless there is a raise helper spring involved. I would only shorten or tighten the lower return spring if the lower finger was moving away from the neutral position when the raise was engaging or if it wasn't returning to the neutral position after being lowered. |
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