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Topic: Fret marker location |
Greg Vincent
From:
Folsom, CA USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 8:35 am |
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Hi folks,
I get asked all the time (mostly by non-musicians, oddly) why a guitar's fret markers are where they are, with frets 1,3,5,7,9 & 12 etc. typically getting markers. Why is that? On some older instruments, fret 10 gets a marker rather than 9. Why is that? Is it all just aesthetics? If that's the case, wouldn't putting markers on ftets 2,4,6,8,10 & 12 appear more balanced? |
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Keith Davidson
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 11:01 am
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Gary,
I'll take a guess as I'm a newbie to pedal steel guitar and haven't played any kind of guitar prior to taking up the steel.
My guess would be that it is to highlight the major chords that are used most frequently such as G 3rd fret, A 5th fret, and so on.
If they were on the 2nd fret for example it would look just as good but the 2nd fret would be F# which is not used anywhere near as often as G for instance.
Purley a guess though my friend, should be interesting to get some professional input.
Great question.
Keith |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2011 10:40 pm
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The fret markers on most guitars are based on equal tempered tuning scales and I also have a guitar that has the fret markers in Just Intonation.
Without wanting to re-start the endless debate over Just tuning versus Equal Temperament versus cabinet drop on black guitars, I'll touch on a couple simple concepts.
The 12th fret is at the 1/2 way point on the length of the string which is an octave above the open string. The octave ratio is 2/1.
The 7th fret, a 5th interval, is 1/3 of the length of the string, leaving 2/3rds to vibrate and the ratio of a (just) perfect 5th is 3/2.
The 5th fret, a 4th interval, is around 1/4 of the length of the string, leaving 3/4ths of the string to vibrate. The ratio of a perfect 4th is 4/3.
The 4th fret is around 1/5 of the length of the string, a major 3rd, leaving 4/5ths of the string to vibrate and a (just) major 3rd ratio is 5/4.
The 3rd fret is around 1/6th of the string, a minor 3rd, leaving 5/6ths of the string to vibrate and the (just) minor 3rd ratio is 6/5.
The 2nd fret is around 1/9 of the string length and is a major 2nd, leaving 8/9ths of the string to vibrate and (the just) major 2nd ratio is 9/8.
And so on. You'll notice that the harmonics are also lined up with the fret positions, but that's a longer story. The reality is, because the frets are probably tuned in tempered, the 7th fret is the 12th root of 2 to the 7th power of the length of the string. |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 11:12 am
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| I just noticed that this was about fret markers and not frets. I guess 3 days of doing my taxes has scrambled my brain more than I realized. But then, writing about frets was a nice break from the financial trauma... |
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Greg Vincent
From:
Folsom, CA USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 2:38 pm
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| I guess what I'm really talking about, Chas, is neck decoration in between the frets... |
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Billy Tonnesen
From:
R.I.P., Buena Park, California
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 3:48 pm
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| Neck, or position markers are in the spaces prior to the 3rd, 5th, 7th, 10th, and 12th Frets. Repeat the same spacing for the next Octave as if the 12th fret is the is "Nut". There are a lot of pictures showing keyboards posted on the Forum and the position markers spacing is most always the same. |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2011 8:03 pm
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ya Greg, sometimes I wonder if I have any idea of what is going on or if I'm just wandering around in a fog of oblivion.
I was just looking at my fretboard and it occurred to me that there is a symmetry (palindrome)of the markers based on the tritone, 6th fret, which is the center of the octave, and the 12th fret has 2 clear frets on either side, which make it more prominent, which would explain the reason for 2 clear frets on 1 and 2.
The reason I look to the tritone is the Harry Partch scale is a palindrome. |
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Greg Vincent
From:
Folsom, CA USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2011 9:20 am
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Yeah Billy. My question is WHY.
That's interesting, Chas. At the flat 5 position the markers in either direction are a "mirror image" of each other. Never realized that.
Although on some guitars (Gibson Les Paul Custom, for example) there's a marker behind fret #1, so that ruins the pattern. |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2011 12:29 pm
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| Leave it to Gibson to ruin the pattern. |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 11 Mar 2011 4:49 pm
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If there was one between each fret they'd be meaningless.
My Dekley's fretmarkers basically tell me where frets 3, 5, 7, 9, and 12 are. That doesn't mean I'm gonna hit 'em, it just means where I aim when playing the pattern.
_________________
Lawyers are done: Emmons SD-10, 3 Dekleys including a D10, NV400, and lots of effects units to cover my clams... |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 13 Mar 2011 5:44 am
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| On mandolins, it's always 3,5,7,10 and 12. 10 rather than 9. My guess it's entirely aesthetic - you've got to hit 5, 7 and 12 for musical purposes, and other than that it's just sort of what looks OK. |
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