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Topic: Twin Reverb Reissue vs. Twin Reverb hand wired--. |
James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Feb 2011 7:44 pm |
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For the benefit of newcomers, What are the differences YOU have noticed between reissue twins and older hand wired twins. Any differences you may see or feel merits mentioning?
Myself, I'm a firm believer these two amps are definately are not created equal, and I will always be for the handwired older twins. I have my reasons.
_________________
"Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement"~old cowboy proverb.
shobud@windstream.net |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 12:11 am
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James,
I found the RI to have a slightly harder and stiffer sound than the silverfaces I have owned. The RI did improve noticeably after it spent four sets with a pretty loud band a couple of times. I think those Jensen RI speakers need a good breaking in.
The RI is no had wired amp, but it has a good does on the twin sound, nevertheless.
Dan |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 5:17 am
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| James having owned both versions I would take the hand wired for sure. I had nothing but trouble with my RI. Since I bought it in 1998 I had it in the shop more than on the gig. Plus, I always had to take a back-up amp because I couldn't trust it. I hate to say that about a Fender product but mine was a piece of junk. When it did work it always sounded harsh for guitar and really thin for steel. I finally traded it off over the winter and couldn't be happier to get rid of it. I had a silver faced Twin years ago and it was wonderful. I ended up trading it for the piece of junk. What a dumb move that was. |
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Larry Robbins
From:
Fort Edward, New York
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 6:47 am
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Handwired for sure! That aside..I own a 65 RI Twin that I bought "Scratch& dent" and have gigged it pretty hard for about five yrs problem free..but I seem to be the exception and not the rule.
_________________
Twang to the bone! |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 2:25 pm
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Larry,
I don't think that's necessarily an exception. Is it possible there are not as many lemons around among hand-wired amps because the old lemons flamed out early on after they were built (just like the RIs that people have had trouble with more recently), and now only the reliable ones are left? There were no online forums back in the 60s and 70s to widely spread the word the way there are now. Probably not the case though; I suspect they were really more reliable then, but mine rarely had to see a tech and never crapped out on me at a gig.
All that said, I agree with Larry and Craig: you'll get more amp for the buck with a silverface, and one that may be easier to customize, tweak, etc. than the RI and its pc board innerds.
Dan |
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Colin Mclean
From:
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 5:04 pm
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I'll go with a hand-wired...if only because they're easier to work on.
Not everything hand wired is created equal though. I had a '77 135w UL a couple years back and it sounded good, but not great. A little sterile. I tried some mods that a guy outlined in the archive pages here to turn the tone stack into a "brownface" circuit but that didnt' improve it by much for me. In the end my Vibrolux always sounded better, I think because I was able to turn the volume up higher to push the power tubes a little, plus I like the tube rectifier. That's the amp I use now.
I did try a RI BF Twin at low volume for a quick jam session and it sounded great but for the money I'd rather have something I can work on and modify, and still have some resale value if I want to sell it. |
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Johnny Thomasson
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2011 3:54 am Twin Reverb Reissue vs. Twin Reverb hand wired
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I own a '65 Twin with a 15" "Peavey" JBL (anyone know whether that's a D130 or a K130?). A while back I had the opportunity to play through a '65 RI. There were more differences between the amps than similarities, IMO. The RI was a couple years old and had more than enough hours on it for the speakers to be broken in.
I won't say the RI sounded bad, but when A/B'ing with my '65, it had a hard edge on pretty much all frequencies, and overall sounded "brittle" by comparison. That's the best I can describe it. I just eyeballed the settings on mine and didn't touch them again, but no amount of tweaking would get the RI anywhere close to mine sonically.
The RI had the stock Jensen speakers. I didn't think to try running the RI through my JBL, which I imagine would have helped it somewhat. And, I should mention that I keep my amp in top shape. But still... I'll stick with my point to point hand wired Twin any day!
One last comment... I bought this amp in 1975, and although it's pretty much "retired" today, I rode it hard and put it up wet for about 30 years, and it never failed me. It never occurred to me to carry a backup amp to a job. Nowadays I use a late model NV400 for fiddle and a '74 Session 400 for steel.
James - howz the hand pal? Hope yer doing better!
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Johnny Thomasson |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 2 Mar 2011 6:50 am
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Hey Johnny, That "Peavey label" JBL, if it's a black frame, is a K130, according to Woody Woodell. I got one here that needs reconing, so I'll send it to Woody soon. It's a 4 ohm.
The hand is coming, but it's slow going.
_________________
"Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement"~old cowboy proverb.
shobud@windstream.net |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2011 9:33 am
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| Colin Mclean wrote: |
...
Not everything hand wired is created equal though. I had a '77 135w UL a couple years back and it sounded good, but not great. A little sterile. |
True. The ultralinear thing is notoriously less pleasing sounding than the good old 80-watt Twins. Definitely more sterile sounding, and you witnessed it first hand. While they may have technically squeezed the extra power out of the 6L6's on some measurable level with the ultralinear transformer tap approach, you'll find a pretty large audience of audio nuts that strongly dislike the sound of ultralinear Fenders.
In my opinion, Fender messed with a good thing when they went ultralinear to get the supposed 135 watts.
Regarding the RI Twins over the hand-wired, I have found that the RI Fenders can be made to sound better with improved cap's and plate (and other) resistors here and there, but they still don't sound right to me. Close, but not quite there. And to be fair, I think the bad rap the the RI's get is largely due to the sound of the new, not-broken-in speakers. The only fair test of a RI Fender is to hear it thru old, worn-in, and good sounding speakers. I don't know of any speakers that sound good when new and stiff. And it's not the surround that needs softening, that only addresses the bass response, to my ears its the paper itself that needs to soften so the treble and midrange becomes pleasing. Dozens and dozens of hours, humidity, dry, seasonal changes, bar smoke, etc. sure seems to make speakers come to life.
B |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 2 Mar 2011 6:07 pm
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I like the older Twins for sure. I've played through a bunch of RI Twins, and briefly owned two before bringing them both back in frustration due to faulty parts, etc. My '71 Twin is dialed in nicely and never lets me down.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2011 6:57 pm
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I've had both and IF you're using the amp reverb your in for a shock on the RI. It's thin and metallic sounding and pretty much destroys the sound of the amp. Thank goodness for reverb stomp boxes.
I have the Deluxe Reverb and Princeton Reverb RI's and they are tubey enough for me but unforunately blown out of the water by the lowly blackface Vibro Champ.
Greg |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 7 Mar 2011 6:30 pm
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"If it ain't broke, Don't fix it." Makes you wonder, what were they thinking when they came up with the reissue amp. Definately a step backwards from the tried and true handwired amps. My opinion-----------------
_________________
"Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement"~old cowboy proverb.
shobud@windstream.net |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 7 Mar 2011 6:37 pm
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They were thinking money, James. It's false advertising to call those amps Twins, Supers, etc. And the word "reissue" implies they are replicas of the originals. In cosmetics only, I'm afraid. As amps go they don't sound too bad, but they're not "Fender Twins", no more than a Mexican Fender Strat is the same as an original '57 Strat.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2011 6:57 pm
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| As a side note make sure of what you are buying when you buy one. I bought a Hot Rod Deluxe that I have just found that the tubes were swapped in it before I bought it. When I contacted Fender I was told there was nothing they could do about it because the 90 day warranty was over for the tubes. How can that be when the original tubes are not in it? |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 7 Mar 2011 8:37 pm
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there is no comparison between the two.
I just did 2 weeks in the UK with backline: a brand new RI Blonde Twin, and wow, what a terrific piece of Sh*t! The amp really had a terrible tone, and very poor feel - the dynamics with my volume pedal were totally lost on that thing. Plus, the reverb was always too much, even if it was barely there.
My old Silverface twin that I blackfaced is about a million times more usable than the new Twin was.
However, my silverface sounds harsh and dynamically limited when compared to the Twin based amp that I just built for myself out of the highest quality components available.
So I guess I would rate it in this order:
New Fender: unusable and harsh. Crying in a bad way because its shameful.
Old Fender: usable and awesome in many cases, no tears.
Boutique based on Fender Circuit: unbelievably awesome. Crying in a good way because you are in tone heaven.
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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