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Topic: Playing too Loud or not Loud enough! |
Manny Philipps
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 8:23 am |
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Hello,
I been playing pedal steel now for 16yrs. I'm not the greatest player but I carry my own ok. In the past 10yrs I been playing with bands and there always seems to be this problem that I'm playing too loud or not loud enough. In the beginning I played low then I adjusted that to where everyone can hear me. Now they say I'm too loud! hahaha what's with this? am I the only one with this problem or what? I would love to hear your comments. This is kind of driving me crazy... It doesn't happen every time.... no buddy seems to say anything if the drummer bangs on the skins to hard or the lead pretty boy over plays or too loud... what the heck am I suppose to do? I do have an idea but I'll wait to hear from you..... 
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Ron Epperson
From:
Riverside,Calif. U.S.A.
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 8:37 am
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| you r probably not to loud the steel guitar has alot of sustain so u really have to learn how to work the volume ped and when to speak out and when not to maybe just learn where to play remember you r playing bigger chords with more strings play quite but good make em leave wanting more |
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Michael Robertson
From:
Ventura, California. USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 8:49 am Come on
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Come on Airborne, feet and knees together!
Tell those critics to find something else to whine about, because you’re not going to change.
While you’re at it ask them why they think they have the right to pass judgment on you.
_________________
No Avatar only a picture of my Mentor. |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 9:04 am
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| Ron Epperson wrote: |
| you r probably not to loud the steel guitar has alot of sustain so u really have to learn how to work the volume ped and when to speak out and when not to maybe just learn where to play remember you r playing bigger chords with more strings play quite but good make em leave wanting more |
You maybe right, but very often people don't know that the steel has to have the same, or almost the same loudness than the vocals. Frankly I would be suspicious of these guys, because most steel players know which volume is appropriate. |
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Ray Harrison
From:
Tucson, Arizona, USA (deceased)
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 9:23 am
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Many times, it is a simple problem of how an amp is placed. The steel players hears it and the rest of the band can't, or vice versa. Unless the band is mic'ed and using a sound man the amp needs to be heard by all on stage.
I work trio and sometimes have the problem because the steel is far away and I can't hear it, but the crowd tell me it is too loud. I have the drums between myself and my steel/guitar player.
_________________
Ray Harrison
Bass/sing/Love PSG
77 Stingray/Kiesel 5 string bass
Telonics , Fender Rumble500, Polytone Amps
D-16 Martin, 1970 Ovation guitars |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 9:32 am
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It's the treble.
Even if you're a great player and are playing at the same volume level as the rest of the band your clean high notes are cutting through and can be irritating. |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 10:36 am
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Manny,
I hear that all the time. Especially from the guitar picker. Never from the audience though. I've found that some musicians have a thing about steel guitars. The steel can "steel" the show sometimes, and I think that can bother the other folks in the band. A lot of lead guitar pickers get used to being the main instrument and can't take a steel being out front.
After playing as long as you have I'm sure you know about amp placement. I've found that if I get my amp too close to me it can actually sound louder some distance away than what I perceive the loudness to be.
_________________
You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Bob Hickish
From:
Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.
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Duane Dunard
From:
Troy, MO. U.S.A.
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 11:04 am
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| I agree with Stuart. It's the high notes that really cut through the mix and hurt peoples ears. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 11:16 am
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| Set up a video camera in the back of the room where you play; so the camera picks up what the audience hears. I do this frequently, and I am often amazed that what I hear on stage is not what the audience is hearing. You may find that you are too loud, or not loud enough, or that you or someone else is overplaying, or any number of other areas that need to be addressed by the band. By doing this you have something concrete to discuss with your band-mates. |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 11:27 am
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perhaps you should record while you're all playin' Manny & play it back to those concerned
the proof is in the pudding 
hey, i see that Paul suggestion's is right up that alley |
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Dickie Whitley
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 11:28 am
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It's the soundman's fault, I know, I used to be one and all the problems we had were my fault (least that's what I was told). Still trying to figure out why they didn't can me.   |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2011 1:49 pm
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I prefer to use a mic on my Peavey NV-112 amp so that the volume on stage is low. The other members of the band do the same thing since we all value our hearing.
I find that if I place my amp on the floor, the sound projects straight out, and I can't hear it very well.
To hear my amp clearly, I usually tilt it back at about a 45 degree angle, either against a wall or using a Triad Standback.This little gadget costs about $20 and easily fits in the back of my amp.
- Dave |
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Manny Philipps
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2011 10:36 am your feed back
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Hello to all of you who answered..Thanks for all the feed back on this issue of mine. I tried everything I can think of except the recording live. This might be a good option but I don't know if I'll do it. I do keep my amp very close to me and I notice that's the best way to play so I can control the interaction between me and the others. Last night I did a gig in a medium sized room and I received nothing but compliments YEAH for the pedal steel! no one said boo to the lead! Just love it! I know its all experience on this sound problem I'm having or are the others just plain nuts? what is it with those guys??? they can play loud and distorted but if I try to play loud I'm too loud? you know I'm going to start brining a cattle prod with me! stick it in his you know what every time I hear him complain! hahahahaha
By the way I use a NV 400 with a G sharp possessor...very sweet sound! I also have a NV 112 which is a nice amp for the money but don't have the torque like the 400.
we don't mic anything. We are just a 4 piece band. very plain and very simple. I don't really care to carry anything extra If don't have to, since I run the band.
Thanks
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 27 Feb 2011 12:16 pm
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| Quote: |
| nothing but compliments YEAH for the pedal steel! no one said boo to the lead! |
At least you know why the lead player tells you to turn down |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2011 2:11 pm
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Who is it that tells you you're too loud? I'd believe someone in the audience over anyone in the band.
I always set my amp in the same relative position to me and always keep my volume set the same. The stone country bands I play with sometimes tell me to turn up, but the guys in the louder rock-type band I play with almost always tell me to turn down.
I think the country bands want the steel out front to define their sound, but the rock-type band doesn't want to ruin their image by having too much steel get through the mix. |
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Manny Philipps
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2011 3:01 pm too loud
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| It first started with my band...they said it was too loud...so I turned down....then @ a gig I was told by the bar tender I wasnt loud enough...so I turned back up.... my lead player had a baby so I turned back down...and this BS goes on.. but last night and the previous gigs I didnt hear any one so I'm assuming all is well... |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 27 Feb 2011 3:15 pm
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So fire the guitar player.
Problem solved.
I'm with Dave M -- if I have my preference I'll just use my rig as a stage monitor -- usually beside me pointing ACROSS the stage. No problem getting the sound I want so I can hear it better than anyone else, and 90% of the steel sound comes out of the PA. I use a direct box between my amp and speaker so the PA gets exactly what goes out to my speaker. My DI has a Jensen transformer that closely matches the characteristics of a musical instrument speaker. We usually don't have a dedicated sound man, but our relative levels stay more or less the same from venue to venue.
That's what works best for me.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Don Hinkle
From:
Springfield Illinois, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2011 5:50 pm
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Interesting post.....
I play lead and steel in my band... honestly, I play steel TWICE as loud as I play my telecaster.. I get nothing but smiles from my band mates every time I let the steel peel the paint...
_________________
Emmons Legrande III SD10
Emmons Legrande III D10
Session 400
Fender guitars
Fender amps |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 27 Feb 2011 7:08 pm
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I think most of us has had this in our playing carrer at some point in time. The 15 inch speaker if you are using an amp, has a 'Shotgun 'effect. If you are sat close it dosent sound loud but away from the amp it exspands out as it is constructed to do so.
All players hear differently so nobody can give you a solid answer over the web.
To illiminate this problem, because i also had it, i went to a PodXT 7 years ago and i work in a band that has no amps on stage, but have a huge road rig P.A and a soundman. I also understand that this is not the case for every band, and my suggestion is this;
Put your amp facing you as a wedge monitor on low volume with a tilted amp stand, keep levels low to protect your ears, volume can close the ears up as a protecter over the 4-5 hours gig and knob tweaking is a human nature. Resist this temptation if you are like me
MIC the amp and let the complainer do the Soundman gig. This is what i did a few years before i went pre-amp only and it kept a lot of people happy.
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A.K.A Chappy. |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 2 Mar 2011 7:43 pm
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| Ever notice how a smile and a pained expression can look pretty much the same? |
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Don Barnhardt
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2011 11:07 pm
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| If you run the band that should solve the problem. |
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Sonny Priddy
From:
Elizabethtown, Kentucky, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 3 Mar 2011 8:00 am Bands & Steel
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| I Played with two bands That Didn't know Any Thing About playing With A Steel The Guy Over The Band I Was Always To Loud. The Other Guy Over The Other Bans Was The Same He Was The Lead Picker.He Never Did Get It How To Play With Steel. But Boy You Could Him.Some Lead Players That Don't Know Don't Like Steel It Show's Them Up. SONNY. |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 4 Mar 2011 10:21 am
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In the new band I am in I am trying my best to play quieter than the vocals and guitar player. This puts me to far back in the mix, but my augmolished and demented licks get in their way and they have a harder time with vocal pitch. Now I have also taken to playing one and two note lines, pedals up and pedals down on one fret, just to have the sound of a steel in the band and leave lots of room for others to play.
Boy it is the hardest job I ever had, trying not to play. The guys are great and the money is good and jobs are hard to find so I am ok. I played a ton of steel with my 23 years with Cross Country so I guess it is time to rest and kick back.
Larry Behm
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2011 10:48 am
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What band are you in now, Larry?
Any gigs coming up? |
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