Finish for steel guitar body

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Any of you builders ever use shellac as a finish? It is a forgotten "wonder finish".
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Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

No. Not durable enough.

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Kevin,

I used to think that until I did some research. Real shellac of the right pound cut for the application is extremely hard and durable, will not yellow due to uv, has very good water resitance, and gives wood grain a look that is unbeatable. There are items that were finished with shellac hundreds of years ago and the finish is still good. It has been used by pros as a floor finish for years.

It is easily applied, easy to dye/tint, is very clear, and dries fast and hard, if freshly mixed. It is all natural, has only a light alcohol smell when wet that dissappears quickly. Cleans up with alcohol or a light ammonia soap and water mixture. It seals wood problems like knots very well. It is easy to repair, and can be buffed and polished to a beautiful shine.

I plan to use it on a pedal steel body I am presently working on.

Shellac if used fresh is a great musical instrument finish.
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Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Bill, if you are willing to do a shellac rub down like the old piano finish, you will indeed get a durable finish. This takes hours and hours of rubbing with a soft rag spiked with shellac and alcohol.
The problem is, spill one drop of vodka or anything other than water on the finish - there goes the durability out the window.
Shellac lends itself very nicely to re-finishing, which is good, because, time will reveal mini cracks and demand re-shellacking.

I recommend you use a high quality instrument lacquer.
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Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Thanks Bent,

I understand your concern. I do plan to use a shellac finish on the body I'm working on. I'll post pictures and finish details when I'm through with it.

I don't worry so much about the vodka, it's the scotch, or muscadine wine.
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Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Sellac does not have any where's near the clarity or transparency of modern polyurethanes. Which is one of the reasons that it is not widley used anymore.

Todd Clinesmith · From: Lone Rock Free State Oregon

I use Schellac as a sealer on all of my steel guitars. It is the best sealer out there. It is Natural, adds a great natural color, and brings out the best in figured maples. For top coats I use a true oil Varnish., which is easily one of the best finishes out there, if not the best, but one of the hardest to apply.

I am sure if you are carefull you can make the Schellac a good finish, but it does have its short falls, as far as heat, and alchohol is concerened. And as Bent says, it will check over time but it is easily repairable, if you have the skills to do so.... which takes time and energy to learn the French Polish technique properly. Tho the checking can be repaired in no time with the skills. Laquers will check over time too. Many of the top classical and Flamenco guitar builders still use Schellac religously on guitar tops... and some also on back and sides. I think one of the reasons it is not used as much any more ( besides the short falls) , is because it takes time and skill to apply correctly.
Todd

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Todd,

You are right. I have used shellac to finish guitars for years and it works very well. Nothing makes wood look as good as shellac to me, and it can be kept thin and still cover well.

I use it to repair guitar finish on accoustics and as shellac will stick tenaciously to almost anything it repairs flawlessly. I use it as a sealer and always rub it on and it gets into the grain pores and helps to eliminate the top coat of nitro from sinking over time and showing pits or pores.

I have found shellac to be as tough as or maybe even tougher than nitrocellulose lacquer. That is my finding, each can make their own.

I have and usually do french polish accoustics and I don't see it as a chore, I love to do it.

I have repaired the finish on many Martin accoustics for Bluegrass pickers, (whom I have found to be fairly rough on guitar finishes), it works and the repair is undetectable.

I personally believe shellac gets an undeserved bad reputation from those who either have not tried it, or did not use it fresh, which is very important. Shellac has a short shelf life after mixing.

There are several finishes available, including the catalized type, but none can give wood the beautiful look of shellac. Most of those finishes look to me like a layer of plactic sitting on top of the wood. Those finishes also have their problems, and they will scratch, peel and dent too. I have used these types as well and will continue to do so. They have their place just as nitrocellulose, varnish, and shellac.
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Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Polyurethane does not scratch, peel or dent. It's super hard. You can drop your bar on it. It doesn't fade or check and is perfectly clear, which shellac isn't. It looks cany apple. Shellac has a yellow/brown tint to it. Shellac breaks down over time and will check. I would never use it on a steel guitar. Then again, I would never use poly on an acoustic.

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Kevin,

I agree, polyurethane is good stuff. I use it, and get good results with it. However, it isn't indestructable.

I'm not saying shellac is the way to go for a steel, I'm saying it is a way for me and what I am doing right now on this psg body. It certainly is not as hard as polyurethane, especially catalized polyurethane. But it can be clear or yellow/brown as you say. I use both and sometimes mix them for a color match on an older guitar. The bleached clear shellac is very clear.

Also the gloss finish it imparts is not candy apple, but then again candy apple poly doesn't impart the look to the wood grain anywhere near what the shellac does. Both are beautiful, just different.

I am not telling anyone to use it. I'm just saying that I like the look shellac imparts, and for this one project it works.
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Glenn Uhler · From: Trenton, New Jersey, USA

White shellac produces the least color change of any finish on wood. Before modern finishes, almost all instruments were french-polished with shellac. Much of the french-polishing shellac was dark brown in color. After modern finishes were invented, shellac was still used as a sealer and bonding coat under the lacquers. The thin shellac coat however, was prone to fingerprinting and uneven coverage. Now, a vinyl product is used under the lacquer or polyurethane for the best adhesion.

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Glen,

Have you tried shellac for a finish?

I am not recomending for anyone to use it to finish their psg, just that there are other possibilities.

I have used it on guitars with good results and found shellac to be suprisingly tough and water resistant. Not waterproof though!

From my point of view no other finish makes wood grain look so good. Shellac becomes part of the wood and you see the grain, not so much the finish. Most built up finishes, (if not all), look to me like the glass top on Grandma's dining room table. I see the finish and the wood through it. With shellac it's like the shine comes from the wood.

Shellac can be sprayed, brushed, or rubbed on with a pad. The one most important thing with shellac is to mix it fresh and to the right cut. Once mixed it has a very short shelf life. You can get the flakes bleached or natural, with the naturally occurring wax or without. A two pound cut polishes well, but that's up to the user and how he handles it. I tend to mix denser.

I know shellac has some drawbacks, but if you can accept those you are in for a super finish. Again I am not recomending for anyone to use it, just realize that there are other things and other ways. I like shellac and get good results, you may not! It doesn't hurt to think out of the box though, sometimes.
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Glenn Uhler · From: Trenton, New Jersey, USA

Bill,
I agree with you completely! I just wanted to point out that there was more than one kind of shellac used in finishes. My Martin bowl-back mandolin and my Martin ukes are all french-polished. (They never go anywhere where that strong alcoholic beverages are served.)
The lighter grades of shellac are excellent tools to help "pop" the grain of curly or birdseye maple. It's a good first coat sealer, too, but only buttonlac is tough enough for a finish.

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Bill, I will research shellac and learn up on it.

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Kevin,

I know you will. I've seen your guitars, your work is flawless and I would never attempt to make any suggestions to you on how you finish your guitars.

There are many projects, or I should say the vast majority of my projects where I would not use shellac as a finish. Yet there are so many uses for it, and so many variations of shellac, and that makes it a wonderful tool. It is easy to use, has almost no smell, is nontoxic, and is beautiful. Also, it is old, and I love old things and old ways. It is expensive though. Usually around $25.00 per pound or more, depending on the type used.

However, on a project such as the old MSA I am building a new body for, it will work. For one thing it will probably never leave my studio. That's where it stays now and I don't play it out anymore. I am doting on the thing because it was my first new guitar, and I've had it for 34 years.

I hope you did not think I was pushing this as a finish for production guitars, it is not, it is specialized, for special projects, and people who understand, and are willing to work with it's shortcomings. It is a great sealer, always. Probably the best.
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Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

Why not an oil and wax finish? It works especially well on maple, and the resulting satin sheen would be a good contrast to all the polished metal parts. Easy to apply, easy to repair – and it really brings out the depth and lustre in the wood grain.

I've used it on a couple of electric solidbodies, the first one in 1994. That one still looks fantastic - and feels gorgeous to handle.

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Oil and wax makes a nice finish. I like bee's wax. You can get a real nice glow in the finish with bee's wax.

I finished a cabinet years ago with old motor oil. The color and sheen were nice, but my wife wouldn't let me leave it in the house because of the smell.

Probably wouldn't smell any worse than the old night club smell that clings to a guitar after a weekend sitting in a small club.
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Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Kevin mentioned using polyurethane earlier which reminds me of an experience I had with poyurethane in 1971.

I refinished a Gretsch Nashville for a friend and I used some tinting powders I got from another picking buddy who worked for Kohler Campbell piano manufacturing company. Guitar building and finishing supplies were fairly hard to come by then, so I got them where I could.

The Nashville turned out beautiful, the color was perfect. But, the finsh just would not set up! We set it behind a wood fired heater for a week, turning it often. It felt dry and hard so we assembled it. It was beautiful!

The only problem was after you picked it and the neck warmed up your hand would stick to it.

Mike kept it for a while and the problem never got any better. He traded it for Double Anniversary Model and forgot the Nashville.

About two years later we were jamming one Friday night at a music store where we used hang out and there was a guy picking with us who had a great looking Nashville. Mike asked him how he liked it, as Mike was wanting another one. The guy said, "I love it except after you pick it for a while you can't turn the neck loose".

It was the same guitar. The finish never cured. To this day I am nervous about using polyurethane.
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Sonny Jenkins · From: Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx

When I was making my little keyless lap steels I used tru-oil, which I think is a shellac product. I found it very easy to work with and forgiving of this amateur. I received compliments on the finishes continually. Hi gloss or satin (gun stock) finishes.

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Sonny, a friend of mine is a gunsmith and he uses alcohol stain, shellac sealer and true oil as a topcoat. He gets some beautiful finishes.
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