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Topic: GFI cabinet drop? |
Scott Kwapiszeski
From:
Harlan, Iowa 51537
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Posted 17 Feb 2011 11:41 am |
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Recently I noticed when I use my 1st and 2nd pedals on my GFI Ultra, the unpeddaled strings, (1,2,4,7,8,9) go flat. Is this normal cabinet drop or is there something I should check or can do for this? Thanks!!!
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ZUM Steel D10, Rittenberry S10, Walker Stereo Steel, Quilter Steelaire, Hilton volume, SGBB |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 17 Feb 2011 11:57 am
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| normal. |
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Bob Tuttle
From:
Republic, MO 65738
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Posted 17 Feb 2011 4:04 pm
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| It depends on how flat they go.If it's not noticeably audible, it's not a problem. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 17 Feb 2011 4:06 pm
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Most guitars have some detuning - some less, some more. Back in 1981 or 82 the Pedal Steel Guitar Association's newsletter published a summary of all the models that were at the ISGC that year, by Winnie Winston, with the amount of detuning each had - and all had detuning.
My wife's GFI Expo S-10 has some cabinet drop. My Franklin D-10 has some. I used to have an Emmons D-10 Push Pull and it had some. |
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Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Feb 2011 8:19 am
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| Scott can you give us some idea of how much it drops ? Can you actually hear it drop when depressing the pedals ? I don't know if there was a perfect guitar ever made from anyone ! Put the tuner on the guitar and see how much it drops if you will . Best regards , G.P. |
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Scott Kwapiszeski
From:
Harlan, Iowa 51537
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Posted 18 Feb 2011 9:27 am
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It is noticeable. I didn't pay much attention to it till I got my peterson tuner and as I was playing around with it I realized those strings were going flat with AB down. I'll have to check the actual amount but now that I'm aware of it I guess I pay more attention to it. Thanks for your input everyone!!!
_________________
ZUM Steel D10, Rittenberry S10, Walker Stereo Steel, Quilter Steelaire, Hilton volume, SGBB |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 18 Feb 2011 11:02 am
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| If you didn't know you had it until you got the tuner, it's probably nothing to be concerned about. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Feb 2011 3:13 pm
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"I didn't pay much attention to it till I got my peterson tuner "
That's a big part of the problem! |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 18 Feb 2011 3:17 pm
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But is it ET flat, or JI flat? 
calling eric west... calling eric west.... |
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Dale Hansen
From:
Hendersonville,Tennessee, (USA)
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Posted 18 Feb 2011 8:42 pm
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Scott,
I also own a GFI Ultra, and just gave mine a quick 'drop' check, for reference. There is a tad of dip, but it's minor, and has never been a problem at all.
A few years back, I adopted the fairly common practice of tweaking the 'E's to about 442, and tuning everything else by ear.
How old is your Ultra? Did you buy it new, or used?
Never mind. Let me re-phrase that. Have you ever turned it ugly side up, and snugged up all of the body and neck screws?
A little bit of drop,..a barely detectable to-your-own-ear, drop is reasonable, and to be expected.
If you get it to, or already have it at that point, do yourself a huge favor and simply forget about it.
Getting paranoid, and abnormally nit-picky about tuning issues,...whether real, or imagined, has stolen the joy, the desire, and confidence from countless numbers of talented players.
Some, unfortunately, even begin to hear disembodied 'voices', and become compulsive hand-washers after awhile.
_________________
Bessdang Gizmos - "An Equal Opportunity Annoyer" |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 18 Feb 2011 9:45 pm
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My MSA Legend drops 1.5 cents on the E or 4th string on E9th when I press pedals 1 and 2 with normal actuation pressure. It is possible on some guitars to really tromp hard on the pedals and get them to drop even more flat.
My Sho-Bud Pro-II Custom dropped about 4 cents.
On my Williams model 400 keyless:
"Some quick measurements with my tuner yielded the following results for the high E string on E9th. When the string is taken up to F#, back to E (measure pitch1), down to Eb, back up to E (measure pitch2), the maximum hysteresis was 2.5 cents. Not that I care, cause it never bothered my playing but this is better than any other guitar I have owned."
Cabinet drop:
3 cents on high E string when P1 depressed
2 cents on high G# when P1 depressed
3 cents on low E when P1 depressed
3 cents on high G# when P3 depressed.
So now you know that you have to deal with hysteresis too!
None of those guitars is very hard to play in tune. Sometimes the cabinet drop even helps certain chords and pedal combinations to be more in tune and sometimes it makes things worse.
Over time you will find a good open tuning and pedal setup that will make you sound in tune when you practice. Then when you start playing with other instruments or tracks, the out of tune experience starts all over. You will conquer that too with time and effort.
Greg |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Matthew Warman
From:
here and now
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Posted 19 Feb 2011 11:09 am
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do you think any of the + or - cents converstaions we have may have something in common with how a piano is tuned? Our piano tuner, and I've heard this from others as well, says that if he was to tune a piano to be 100% in tune, each key/note according to the charts/strobe, then the piano would actuially sound out of tune? I've also heard that if every instrumnet in an orchestra was exactly in tune the orchesrta would actually not sound right? It seems that a bit of + or - cents we get here and there is something that is just how it is, and as long as it's not too bad we can live with it?  |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2011 11:22 am
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From Wiki;
"The relationship between two pitches, called an interval, is the ratio of their absolute frequencies. Two different intervals are perceived as the same when the pairs of pitches involved share the same frequency ratio. The easiest intervals to identify, and the easiest intervals to tune, are those that are just, meaning they have a simple whole-number ratio. The term temperament refers to a tuning system that tempers the just intervals (usually the perfect fifth, which has the ratio 3:2) to satisfy another mathematical property; in equal temperament, a fifth is tempered by narrowing it slightly, achieved by flattening its upper pitch slightly, or raising its lower pitch slightly. A temperament system is also known as a set of bearings.
Tempering an interval causes it to beat, which is a fluctuation in perceived sound intensity due to interference between close (but unequal) pitches. The rate of beating is equal to the frequency differences of any harmonics that are present for both pitches and that coincide or nearly coincide.
Piano tuning is the act of adjusting the tensions of the piano's strings, thereby aligning the intervals among their tones so that the instrument is in tune. The meaning of the term in tune in the context of piano tuning is not simply a particular fixed set of pitches. Fine piano tuning carefully assesses the interaction among all notes of the chromatic scale, different for every piano, and thus requires slightly different pitches from any theoretical standard. Pianos are usually tuned to a modified version of the system called equal temperament (see Piano key frequencies for the theoretical piano tuning). In all systems of tuning, each pitch is derived from its relationship to a chosen fixed pitch, usually A440.[12]" |
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Matthew Warman
From:
here and now
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Posted 19 Feb 2011 12:40 pm
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that's just what I thought....  |
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