High Ringing sound on 2nd and 3rd strings

Larry Haas · From: Morganton, North Carolina USA

I have a GFI EXPO S10 with the GFI-II pickup going into a boss RV-3 and from there to a Peavey Rage 258 practice amp. When I pick the 2nd and 3rd strings I get a very high ringing sound so over bearing it looses the sound of these strings. I have turned every knob and adjusted the Boss everywhere and still can't get the ringing out. I can decrease it but the rest of the strings goes so so low on bass that it doesn't sound good. If I lightly pick them it isn't so bad but when I pick a little heavy it really drowns out the whole chord or note. Any idea's on what to look for and maybe set it up to eliminate this. The RV-3 is set at 11:00 on all knobs with the last knob on 7.
Could this be the amp is too close to the steel or maybe the pickup needs to be changed. The steel sounds good except when I pick the 2 strings a little harder. Any suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks
Richard Haas

mtulbert · From: Plano, Texas 75023

Richard,

It sounds to me that you have the "SITAR" effect happening. It becomes really unbearable as you move up the fretboard as well.

I have experienced this as well as one my technician buddies told me it is usually due to a groove that the string is wearing at the changer end on the axle.

One thing to look at is would be to see if you find a groove on the axle of the questionable strings.

What I have done to remedy this is to take some very fine grit sandpaper and very carefully remove that groove. You have to make sure that you sand with the curve of the axle; you don't want to flatten it. Once that is done take some metal polish and with a little work you can shine that sanded part up to as good as new.

Carl Dixon told me of this trick as well and it works for me. When putting on a new string take some very fine oil and put a drop on the top of the axle where the string sits. That seems to remove some of the offending sound as well. In some cases, sanding may not be necessary depending on how deep the groove is.

If you are uncomfortable trying this, then I suggest you find a good technician somewhere in your area. As much as I would love to be able to get rid of that sound by adjusting knobs, it just don't happen.

Hope this helps

Regards,
_________________
Mark T

Infinity D-10 Justice SD-10 Judge Revelation Octal Preamp, Fractal AXE III, Fender FRFR 12

Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

Hi Larry, when I change strings I use a magnifying glass to look at the tops of the fingers for grooves or any imperfections, sometimes they're very hard to see. Then I use an emery board that's very fine on one side and even finer on the other side. You can cut strips the width of the fingers and they're flexible enough to follow the contour of the finger radius. Gently polish out any grooves or burrs as you follow the contour of the finger then when you replace the string, make sure that the part of the string end that has that sharp piece at the end of the winding is away from the finger when you hook it on. I also clean and oil the nut rollers and give em a 1/4 turn on the axle. Hope this helps.

Sandy Inglis · From: Christchurch New Zealand

Hi Larry
My first ShoBud S10 had a similar problem, which was probably the rollers, but I solved it by threading a piece of foam thru (across) the strings between the rollers and the tuners to damp them. Aparently the short length of string was ringing and came through as a 'bad' harmonic!
Good luck
Sandy
_________________
01'Zumsteel D10 9+9; Sho Bud D10 SuperPro; 6 String Lap Steel (Homemade); Peavey Nashville 1000; Fender Deluxe 85;
1968 Gibson SG; Taylor 710 CE; Encore Tele Copy; Peterson Tuner; HIWATT T40 C 40W/20W Combo

Dave Magram · From: San Jose, California, USA

Hi Larry,

Just to clarify, you are looking for extremely fine grit sandpaper, often called "wet/dry" sandpaper.

I use at least 400 or 600 grit any time I notice even a small groove forming on top of the 3rd string finger (or any other). I then use 800 grit to polish the top of the finger as glossy as I can, and as suggested put a light film of oil on the tops of the fingers before replacing the string.

A sheet of each grit will last you a very long time, since you use only small strips, and can get a number of polishings out of each strip.

- Dave

Larry Haas · From: Morganton, North Carolina USA

Thanks everone for the advise. Sounds like everyone has the same answer of where to look. It didn't do this when I bought it new and has gotten worse over a short period of time. I thought maybe it was the type and brand of strings but I'll get the magnafying glass out and look. It is time to change strings anyway so I'll check and lube all places.
Thanks
Richard

Tim Heidner · From: Groves, TX

that problem gets worse the older your strings get, you may just need to change those two strings.

Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

Larry, let us know how this turns out, good luck.

Jerry Roller · From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

You have to be very careful with the sandpaper. If you sand a flat place on top of the roller you can cause even greater sitar sound. I use a very narrow stick of wood with sandpaper wrapped around it and very carefully sand in a rounding motion right where the string leaves the roller while stopping and tuning the string up and checking for the sound until the buzz is gone.
Jerry

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Larry tells me that it's a fairly new instrument, so I would hope that the rollers/fingers aren't grooved yet.

Here are some previous discussions:

Click Here

Also Click Here

The second link contains a couple of links to some earlier discussions.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Before sanding anything, loosen the string with the tuner, and push it off the center of the finger. Then tune it back up to pitch, keeping the string off center. Pick the string, and if it still rings,,,, there's most likely no groove, and it's probably something else.

Larry Haas · From: Morganton, North Carolina USA

I made a mistake in the post. It is the 3rd and 4th strings. Here is what I have found so far. I suspected the amp so I changed to a bass amp I have and it helped. With the Peavey amp I disconnected the RV-3 and went straight from steel to amp. I took it off of clean and I had to turn the amp down to allmost no volume because of terrible distortion on all strings. I moved the 2 strings over a little and that didn't help. It is worst from 12th fret on up and very noticabley worse when the pedals are used. It is allmost like a high pitch harmonic of both strings. The bass amp toned it down a lot and I think I like the more bass sound than what I have been using. I am going to change strings to a different brand and see if that will correct it. I am using SIT strings now and have replaced them with the same kind. It didn't do this when I got it last year and that is why I suspected the amp. I won't know anything more until I order some new strings and try them. If that doesn't work then I will look at the pickup. Thanks for all the interest and info on this and I'll post back when I find the problem.

Richard

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Back in '72, I had a similar "sound" problem with my year old Shobud. It turned out it had something to do with the way the winding at the ball end was sitting against the back of the finger. Back then, I cut a tiny piece of leather that I put between the winding and the finger. It was just long enough to go from the post that the ballend hooks to, and the end of the winding, and about 1/8" wide. Today I would use Dr. Scholl's "Moleskin." It's felt with an adhesive binding. The little piece of leather would fall out when changing or breaking a string!

Larry Haas · From: Morganton, North Carolina USA

Thanks John
I will look at that and play with the idea that's the problem. I'll have all day tomorrow to mess with it. I do have a new set of SIT strings leftover from backup supply and might play with the idea of using different guages also. I'll find it. It is just going to take the time to get the magnifying glass out and get my brain to working on nothing but the problem. Thanks for the reply and I'll surely let everyone know what fixed it. Might even get the hammer out-----just kidding. I have sent a message to GFI and we'll also see what they have to say. They might have run into this with this model and pickup from someone else. For some reason I have a gut feeling it is in the pickup. Wish I knew more about pickups other than checking them with a OHM meter. I do have a frequency meter that I use for ham radio that could be used if I knew what I was looking for as far as what freq.to what freq. it is wound for. It is a high pitch harmonic all over but very bad from the 12th fret on up just on those two strings. I'll find it. Someone suggested somewhere to sell it and get another. I couldn't do that to someone. If it wasn't right then I couldn't push it off on someone else to solve.
Thanks
Richard

Marvin Born · From: Ohio, USA

Larry,

Just for grins,

see if you can measure the frequency of the shrill note you hear. If you can get it to do it with the string open, Then measure the freq of string 3 and the string 4. Add to two together and see how close it comes to the freq you measured of the shrill note. Remember the sum and difference formula from ham radio. If this works at least you know what is doing on. Mute all the other strings on the guitar with a rag when you try this, allow only 3 and 4 to vibrate.

Attached is a link to a freq chart.

http://educate-yourself.org/lte/freqchartmusicalnotes28dec07.shtml

I have a brand new guitar that made this sound on the first day I got it home. But mine was strings 4 and 5.

I replaced the strings and it went away.

Larry Haas · From: Morganton, North Carolina USA

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

I've used SIT strings for many years. It's a good brand. Jagwires and Cobra Coils are also very good.

Larry Haas · From: Morganton, North Carolina USA

I want to THANK everyone that showed me where to look for the problem and I would like to say "IT IS FIXED". I changed strings and paid close attention at the changer. The last time I had changed strings, I didn't pay any attention to how the ball end was laying in the groove. Just about all were cocked and twisted to the side. I made sure they were straight and coming off the loop straight. Not a high pitch at all now. It totally surprised me that being twisted a little would create this problem and I surely appreciate all you friends for the help. It sure is nice to find a place like this forum that you can get help if you are having a problem and I hope someday I can help maybe all of you on something.
Thanks
Richard

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic