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Topic: Pull rod rattle and foam |
Arne Odegard
From:
Norway
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Posted 10 Feb 2011 12:36 am |
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| I've seen pictures of guitars that have foam around the pull rods. Are there some guitars that are prone to pull rod rattle and does it have some thing to do with the way they attach to the bell cranks? |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 10 Feb 2011 8:28 am
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| Quite a few of the builders have gone to smaller diameter changer rods, without sacrificing strength. (to save weight) These rods tend to flex (slap) when activated quickly. It has nothing to do with the connection at the bellcrank. It doesn't hurt anything, unless the noise comes through the amp. The foam helps alleviate the noise. |
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Arne Odegard
From:
Norway
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Posted 10 Feb 2011 9:01 am
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Jim
I have a Carter D10 and I believe it to have thin pull rods I don't seem to have a problem with rod noise or "rod slapp'n" so therefor I was wondering if it had something to do with the different ways rods are connected to bell cranks. |
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 10 Feb 2011 10:14 am Pull rod rattle and foam
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Arne,
I've noticed while working on Carter guitars, that they usually have several extra rod support bell cranks equipped with nylon bushings in lieu of foam blocks. It's a rather expensive way of supporting the rods (and preventing rattles) but I do it all the time to support both raise and drop rods when working on Emmons PP guitars.
_________________
Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 10 Feb 2011 7:21 pm
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Lynn, are you saying that if you have the nylon inserts in the rod holes in the bell cranks, the noise is greatly done away with? If his is so, it is certainly not too expensive, and way less expensive than the brass spacer that some guitars have.
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Arne Odegard
From:
Norway
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Posted 10 Feb 2011 9:10 pm
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My Carter bell crank looks like this:
http://www.steelguitar.com/carter/pedalkit/sld007.htm
The rods fit nicely in the split bell cranks.
I think the Emmons and some others use an elbow bend on the rod in a flat one piece bell crank and was wondering if that could account for more noise and the need for foam. |
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Ned McIntosh
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 10 Feb 2011 9:36 pm
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My Carter D10 has additional plastic bushes in bellcranks to support the pull-rods wher they pass through and this does a good job of preventing "rod-rattle". I regard this as good engineering - a simple and simultaneously elegant solution.
_________________
The steel guitar is a hard mistress. She will obsess you, bemuse and bewitch you. She will dash your hopes on what seems to be whim, only to tease you into renewing the relationship once more so she can do it to you all over again...and yet, if you somehow manage to touch her in that certain magic way, she will yield up a sound which has so much soul, raw emotion and heartfelt depth to it that she will pierce you to the very core of your being. |
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2011 6:27 am Pull Rod Support
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| Bent Romnes wrote: |
| Lynn, are you saying that if you have the nylon inserts in the rod holes in the bell cranks, the noise is greatly done away with? If his is so, it is certainly not too expensive, and way less expensive than the brass spacer that some guitars have. |
Bent,
I was referring to the extra cost of supplying all the extra bell cranks that are used only to support pull rods, when compared to using an inexpensive "comb" of foam like my ZumSteel and several other all-pull guitars use. I certainly don't think it's a bad idea though...it's very effective, just a little more expence than is really necessary.
_________________
Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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Bob Cox
From:
Buckeye State
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Posted 11 Feb 2011 7:00 am
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| Just like pipe hanging in a factory there is a minnimum dim that has to be executed for pipe support . This would be know different on pull rods that are long . A hanger in the middle would be very good to help maintain tunning and be more noise and shipping fiendly.The rods from mid point on should be ok and within hanger tollerence already. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2011 8:20 am
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| On Emmons p/p's, it is common practice to run the long pull rods through an exta bellcrank to help support it since there is really no solid support at the changer end. |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 11 Feb 2011 9:59 am
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Thanks Lynn, I did not know that.
Another cool idea is what Martin Weenick does sometimes. About halfways from the changer he has a plexiglass plate with slots in several heights to let the rods run thru.
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2011 2:13 pm
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| My Fingertip is kinda noisy, but as soon as I turn the amp on, neither I, nor anyone else, can hear the clankin' and bangin', as the pickup doesn't pick up those sounds. And I don't play loud. |
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Arne Odegard
From:
Norway
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Posted 11 Feb 2011 4:43 pm
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After reading all your posts I like the thought that some builders did address the rod noise problem like Bud Carter, Emmons and Martin Weenick did mechanically, rather than having to pack foam as an after thought.
After looking more carefully under my guitar I find Bud Carters bell cranks are very ingenious in their design and I can see why he chose to have them split. |
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