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Topic: Question for the jazzers, pedals vs pedals down |
Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2011 7:31 pm |
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When single note soloing, what percentage (roughly) of the time do play pedals up versus using the pedals for your lines, and what determines your choice?
I tend to use the pedals more for lines when I'm either going to comp a chord in between a phrase, or insert a chord into the line, like 1 & 2 & 3 CHORD 4 & / 1 &___
Thanks for your guidance!
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Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Jim Robbins
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 11 Jan 2011 9:07 pm
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Good question. I find that there are a few pockets where the C-B lower is very useful. Also there`s a little pocket using pedal 6 at the position three frets down from open is useful for lines where you want a jump from 5th degree up to tonic and work in a major 3rd. Mostly I think people play single note lines with no pedals but I`d like to hear from experienced jazzers on that.
Of course if you want to throw in an arpeggiated chord pedals are handy. Inspired by your nice rendition of `What is this thing called love` I`ve been working on half-diminished voicings with pedals down which give you a lot of nice melodic possibilities. |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2011 9:53 pm
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I'm with you on the C-B lower (B-Bb on mine) - nice way to bring two whole steps in a row to the bar, as well as fairly easy access to some chromatics.
I've been starting to work out some pockets for each of the pedals, so as to have chords ready and waiting for comping - most of my guitar playing happens without other chordal instruments, so that feels like a natural style for my steel playing.
What I haven't worked on, much, is the kind of scale work players do a lot on E9, where the pedals are integral to the line. Is this a common thing to do in the 6th tunings?
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Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 15 Jan 2011 9:43 am
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| Personally, Chris, I prefer to play single note lines with the supporting chordal structure intact, which means some pedals and some not. There is a lot of good stuff available on the E9 with the 7 and 9 strings as root but in my world various pedals and levers are also integrated into the scales/chords thusly accessed. Short answer is BOTH! |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 15 Jan 2011 1:53 pm
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I quite often use the 5th pedal on 7th scale runs, 2 down from the open root position ...although sometimes I just slide down with the bar ...it's a matter of taste - seasoning if you will  Same using the 6th pedal and 3rd lower knee lever
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Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Don Drummer
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2011 3:52 pm
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| I discovered the 3 frets down 6th pedal pocket recently and it tie a lot of things together. Christopher, looking for an e9th analog ala pedals/scales to use on the C6 neck is a little hard to find. The closest I've come is through the use of an E to F raise lever for the 6th string. Then again it would make sense to have a 5th string whole tone raise if your after the E9th approach. Don D |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2011 3:55 pm
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On single note lines I tend to NOT use pedals. But I've only been experimenting with a pedal guitar for about 18 months. I have a long history with non pedal steels.
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Amor vincit omnia |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2011 9:45 pm
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Thank you all for giving me some insight! I admit that my inclination for single note runs is to avoid the scary pedals, but I certainly am seeing that like everything else about this instrument, the answer is to just do everything!
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Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Franklin
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 3:39 am
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| Christopher Woitach wrote: |
| Thank you all for giving me some insight! I admit that my inclination for single note runs is to avoid the scary pedals, but I certainly am seeing that like everything else about this instrument, the answer is to just do everything! |
With and without pedals, find the easiest ways to play the altered intervals for the desired color across the fretboard....Sometimes its the bar, sometimes its pedals.........
Paul |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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David Wright
From:
Pilot Point ,Tx USA.
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 5:49 am
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| I would love to single string like Maurice, he truly is a master at it, and uses the whole neck , not just pockets..very tasty note player... |
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Jim Hollingsworth
From:
Way out West
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 7:28 am Pedals?
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Like Paul said ... I tend to do most scales without pedals. But there are some runes that require pedals ... particularly pedal 7 and my pedal 4 the raises F to A, A to C, and C to D (thanks for that one Paul!). P4 gives me both an Am & C major scale all the way across the strings.... very useful. But the majority of the time I go pedal-less.
Jim |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 3:57 pm
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Well, I've almost finished working out Charlie Parker's "Yardbird Suite", including Bird's solo (Jim Cohen does a great version, nice little sneaky Bird quote, too, Jim!). I'm finding that during the solo, most of the lines are fine with pedals up, but that the B-Bb lower (I guess C-B for the C6) is essential for many of licks. At some point, I'll try to do the whole solo as a chord melody, but that's a little ways down the road...
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Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 5:12 pm
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The more I think about it, the more I realize that most of my single-string runs are without pedals or only using pedal 5 (G to F#). I don't use the C to B KL much on single-string stuff because I can usually go faster just moving my bar down a fret to get the same note. (But of course I use that KL quite a bit on chordal work or chord solos). Oh, but there are certainly times when I'll use the 'diminished pedals' (5+6) for a bar or two during single-note stuff.
Would love to hear your take on Yardbird when you've got it together. Cool tune.
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www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 7:41 pm
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Do you use the bar to get the fast mordents? I've tried it both ways - picking the notes (using the C-B lower) doesn't sound the same, but I can get it easily, and sliding the bar quickly up and back two frets, which sounds closer to how a horn might do it, which hard for me, at least right now.
I suppose this is another one to work on both ways, bug or windshield...
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Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 8:26 pm
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My definition of mordent may be off, but I think that is where I use pedals and knees in single line playing the most. Not so much in playing moving gliss type bends, but in creating half and whole steps on adjacent strings in convenient places that you can quickly flam between with thumb+index or thumb+middle. Steel players, myself included, are often guilty of overplaying triplet figures when they find all those cool trilly pockets using small intervals. I have to really consciously try to limit myself from soloing using all those "1-2-3triplet-4-1triplet-2triplet-3-&-4triplet" type licks ad nauseum.  |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 8:27 pm
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I think it depends on what type of articulation you're going for. Sometimes you have a choice of whether to use a pedal or KL to get it, and sometimes you don't. So the answer varies depending upon the specifics of the line you're trying to play. I don't think there's any general answer to this question, Christopher. But, of course, your mileage may vary.
p.s. I think Rick is describing my playing...
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www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 8:35 pm
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p.s. I think Rick is describing my playing... Wink
It ain't so Jim...it ain't so! |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 8:44 pm
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Yeah, I figured there's no general answer, but I'm a sucker for information, and ideas. Besides, the one thing you can't do with most people is talk about pedal steel - their eyes glaze over immediately...
Rick - admit it, busting Jim's chops, so to speak... and a mordent is an ornament where you strike a note, rapidly strike a note a scale tone higher (usually a whole step), then strike the original note again. I'm pretty sure that's what you were referring to from the what you wrote. "Flam" was the term I was looking for - picking an ornament, rather than sliding the bar.
So if we apply this to a classic rock tune, do we get "Oh-oh, Black Betty, Flam-a-let lam"?
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Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 8:49 pm
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Well, if it's a whole-tone interval, I can usually get that on an adjacent string and won't jump the bar back and forth 2 frets on one string. But for a half-step trill, I might do one or the other depending upon the context and the sound I prefer.
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www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 9:05 pm
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On my steel I have 3 main ways (besides just using the bar, which sounds too inexact to my ears)to play a chromatic scale.
1)Using the traditional 4th pedal (which in my case is on a knee) which creates a B note that is adjacent to a C.
2)the A-Ab KL which is right next to G
3)the C-C# next to the D
It's easy to just move the bar in whole steps using any of these and just "flam" the 2 adjacent notes.
To get back to the original topic though..... I'd say 90% of my single note playing on C6 is in open tuning, and I'm slowing working up to a higher percentage on E9 without the pedals also. Ha. |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 9:23 pm
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The whole step is the one I've been using C-B lever for, when it makes positional sense. Usually, I find myself using the bar for chromatics, if there's two or three.
Curious as to how you guys would do a run like Bird's ii V that goes up a iim7 arpeggio, then uses two half steps to approach the 3rd of the V, then two more to approach to 9th of the V.
Ex - ii V in F
(F#) G Bb D F D D# E C C# D
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Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 7:14 am
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| Hey Christopher...I'd play that without pedals. It lays out pretty straightforward on the 6th tuning, starting at the main min7 position (usually from the 8th string up) |
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