Spelling tunings

Mike Neer · From: NJ

I know this has been discussed before, but isn't the conventional way of spelling a tuning from the first string down? You would think that the melody strings would be spelled first. I know that guitar and other stringed instruments are not spelled from the top down, but I've always thought it the convention to do so and I've always done it that way.

I propose a bill, HR 5000 [the Steel Guitar Tuning Spelling Standardization Act], which adopts as a convention, the spelling of tunings from high to low.

All in favor, say "aye"!
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Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

AYE! 1st should be first, not last........

John Groover McDuffie · From: LA California, USA

Roger Shackelton · From: MINNESOTA (deceased)

Mark me down as a definite "AYE"

It makes perfect sense. Smile

Kekoa Blanchet · From: Kaua'i

Maybe it's academically "right" to list the strings high to low, but I can't help but think of them in the order that they are strummed, i.e. low to high. Perhaps that's just one of my bad habits...

But are we gonna have to rename DADGAD tuning? Will the ukulele players need to start tuning to "Fleas Has Dog My"?

When you spell out a C6 chord, you name the notes low to high. When you spell out a C6 guitar tuning, it seems odd to go the other direction.

Call me uncouth, but "Say 'em like you strum 'em" gets my vote!

Mike Ihde · From: Boston, MA

Historically, all chords, (and almost all out tuning are just chords) regardless of the instrument playing them, are spelled from low to high. You ask someone how to spell a C6 chord, they'll say, "C, E, G, A and C."
Chords are built from the bottom up. A chord contains the root, 3rd, 5th, b7th, 9th etc. never the other way around. Why should we spell our lap tunings any differently?
Dobro is bottom up, all guitar tunings I know are the same. Like you said, E9th and C6th pedal steel are from the bottom up.
I've always wondered why some people do it from the high 1st string down. It makes no musical sense.
Everything on guitar (lap or not) is dependent on pitch. If I say play the high E string you get the first string, even though it's physically lower to the ground. It's reversed on a left handed guitar so there has to be a consistency that the highest pitch is string 1 and the lowest is string 6. Play "up" the neck means higher in pitch just as play "down" on the neck means play a lower pitch.

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

I agree, Mike. It makes more musical sense to list the tunings low-high so we can more easily see the intervals in the tuning (root, 3rd, 5th, 6th). As you said, from the bottom, up.

I think a lot of guitarists use high-low because most of the string sets (the packaging) lists them that way.

I always try to list them DOWN the page, not across the page in text, whenever possible to avoid confusion.
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Benjamin Franz · From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

I kind of like both ways. If listing horizontally, it make sense to go from low to high, left to right, because that is getting higher in pitch like a piano does from left to right. If listing vertically, it makes sense to go high to low, getting higher in pitch as you go higher vertically, like music on a stave. Agree it's much easier to see the chords if you have the lower pitches towards the bottom.

Dave Boothroyd · From: Staffordshire Moorlands

Low to high every time, except when typing them on different lines, in which case,if the tuning is G D A E, you type, for example,
E
A
D
G
(Violin and mandolin)
so that the strings show top to bottom how they appear on the instrument.
Cheers
Dave

basilh · From: United Kingdom

High to low has always been the convention here in the UK amongst the BMG fraternity.

Whist Mike Ihde is correct regarding the convention of calling the notes of a chord, the wheel doesn't need reinventing. If one refers to ALL of the instructional material from the Golden era of lapsteel, beit acoustic or electric, the convention was always High to Low.

Players of my age and older (if there are any) would shrink at the alteration of ESTABLISHED conventions.

It really is a precedent that's been set.

Of course the thought has just struck me, if you are used to seeing from high to low, the addition of extra strings beyond six, is easier to read and relate to.

How is the pedal steel E9th shown ?
B-D-E-F#-G#-B-E-G#-D#-F#
or F#-D#-G#-B-G#-F#-E-D-B
There is another established convention, likewise with the C6th and Universal tunings.

The nomenclature MUST be unambiguous, and IS if the established convention is followed.

So to answer you mike in my very succinct yet digressive convoluted discursive and epigrammatic manner, (as above), I join the ranks of the "yea's" Laughing

Steinar Gregertsen · From: Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.

In all beginner courses for 'spanish' guitar I've seen over here the standard tuning is listed low to high. That's also how most players lists a tuning when writing the intervals, like 151351 or 135135 for the good old D/E and G/A tunings..
So for me it's always felt perfectly natural to write/read from low to high...
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Craig Stenseth · From: Naperville, Illinois, USA

How are we defining "first string" <ducks>?

Mike Neer · From: NJ

It is called the first string a reason, I guess. When I was about 8 years old and learning guitar, it baffled me at first as to why the 6th string was not considered to be the first string. Since I had to overcome that hurdle, it's always made sense to recite from first to last.

There really should be a convention--I'm getting tired of typing "high to low" or "top to bottom" or "H-->L". Laughing

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Kekoa Blanchet · From: Kaua'i

Mike, I haven't yet seen the full text of HR5000. What would be the penalties for violation of the Steel Guitar Tuning Spelling Standardization Act? Smile

John Allison · From: Austin, Texas, USA

The steel guitar world, especially non-pedal, is the first time I've ever encountered the convention of high to low tuning designation. A quick search of "stringed instrument tunings" on the internet turns up page after page of tunings written or described low to high. I've just come to accept that many, if not most, steelers describe tunings differently.

I think the habit of listing tunings vertically like this:

G
E
C
A
E
G
C
A

instead of in a "written" way like this:

A, C, E, G, A, C, E, G (or with dashes)

is what makes the difference.

If the notes are listed vertically, they look like tablature and it makes sense to be listed high on top, if they're written out on a single line, low to high is what I expect. Any one with any experience knows enough to recognize the difference, but newbies will continue to be confused, I predict.

I abstain...
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Steve Green · From: Gulfport, MS, USA

Steinar Gregertsen · From: Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.

In the western hemisphere we read from left to right, right?

Chord diagram:

Case closed Winking

PS - I think the safest way to avoid any misunderstandings is to list tunings as shown in the second image in Basils post: vertically instead of horizontally..
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Mike Harris · From: Texas, USA

I came to steel guitar very late in life after studying a variety of instruments over the years. This is the first instrument I've encountered that (sometimes) spells high-to-low. So put me down as a low-to-high guy, I'm too old and hard-headed to switch.

Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

I modified my tunings page to display all tunings this way:

1. E
2. B
3. G
4. D
5. A
6. E

I think it's the clearest way of discussing a tuning that I've found so far.
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Steinar Gregertsen · From: Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.

Three views of a fretboard:

I

The logical spelling would be:
E
C
A
G
E
C

II

The logical spelling would be: CEGACE

III

Oh come on, nobody views a fretboard this way! Laughing

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William Lake · From: Ontario, Canada

I agree with Mike Ihde but I also am coming from a standard spanish guitar background. Whenever a chord diagramme is pictured, it is usually vertical with the strings listed low to high--left to right.
Chord structure is always listed low to high and what is C6 if it is not a chord. Same with any steel tuning....it is a chord. However, I also realize that steel players are an odd bunch and will do it differently. Smile

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John Allison · From: Austin, Texas, USA

I agree with Brad that listing, with string numbers, is definitely the most clear and concise.
I think it's inevitable that any tuning written on a single line with commas or dashes will require an explanation of low-hi or hi-lo.
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Allison Stringed Instruments
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Kekoa Blanchet · From: Kaua'i

Here's a little bit of historical perspective. These are some images of some old instructional material that Michael Lee Allen had posted a while back, which list the strings low-to-high. Note that in both cases, they clarify the order by listing the string numbers immediately above or below the notes.

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

Low to high seems natural to me. When I see high to low, I'm always doing a mental conversion. If there are two ways of doing things, people will do it two different ways. Can't see how you could enforce any convention. Just another of those things in life that are messy...Jerry

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

I agree entirely with Steinar. On every string instrument the first string is the highest. But, as he points out, in the Western World we read from left to right, so the best way to write tunings is 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1, and I find 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 extremely confusing.

That having been said, on a pedal steel guitar in Nashville E9 tuning the first string is not the highest, and this applies to several instruments with re-entrant tuning, such as the ukulele and some citterns.

Also, in multiple-coursed instruments it's usual to refer to courses rather than strings. For instance, on a mandoline, the first two strings are tuned in unison, so you would refer to them as the first course. One never refers to a 10-course lute as a 20-string lute. (Actually, most 10-course lutes have 19 strings, since the first course is usually single.) Unfortunately string manufacturers often refer to mandoline strings as 1 through 8. and they always refer to 12-string guitar sets as 1 through 12.

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