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Topic: Lovin' Spoonful question: |
Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 7 Jan 2011 7:51 am |
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I tried doing a 'search' before posting because I feel a dummy for not knowing the answer!!! My search words weren't 'narrow' enough, apparently, and I couldn't find what I was looking for.
I was reading an old thread about influences here on the SGF and I came to the realisation that it wasn't Emmons on 'Wichita Lineman', or Day on the Everly's 'Lucille' that first piqued my interest in that hard-to-pin-down sound that I'd occasionally hear, but rather the Spoonful's 'Nashville Cats'.
My memory tells me that I first heard this in 1966; we all thought it was a very cool song and I learned the words immediately (there's just that glitch about 'yellow Sun record from Nashville...', but that's okay.)
I've been to YouTube and listened again (after thirty years!) and was surprised to hear that the steel-player is literally only coming on and off the A and B pedals and sustaining the chords, and that's only in the chorus. In my mind's ear, steel was all over that record but, in reality, it's that nice dry electric guitar that's carrying the weight, while the steel just adds a flavour.
Another shock for me to realise is that my next inspiration came from Clarence White on his B-bender Tele (Everlys, late-1960s) rather than an actual steel player. Of course, once I got a bit more information and was pointed in the right direction, I was hooked on Rusty Young, followed by the 'established' steel guys, but it was that musical flavour that got me started.
What is the background to that recording? Who did play that steel part? It may be very simple (where have we heard that before?) but it's intonation is spot-on. The guitar-part is very apt, too, and much of it played on muted lower strings - who was that?
Could someone enlighten me here? (After you've rolled your eyes at my ignorance!!!  )
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Last edited by Roger Rettig on 27 Jan 2011 8:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 7 Jan 2011 8:02 am
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Roger:
If I read the first paragraph correctly, Sebastian on steel?
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum15/HTML/000138.html
I used Google search, not the forums.
"lovin spoonful" as a phrase and "nashville cats steel" for words. The third link was the above link.
Google is often preferable to the forum's own search, in my experience.
Edit:
Then I found this from Pete Finney on this forum, 2007:
"I met John Sebastian at a gig once years ago and asked him about "Nashville Cats"... He said most of it is Zal Yanovsky on guitar playing sort of "steel like" licks, and then in between John played just a little actual pedal steel on I believe what he said was an old Fender..." |
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Don McGregor
From:
Memphis, Tennessee
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Posted 7 Jan 2011 10:30 am
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The Lovin' Spoonful were a big influence on me as well, especially Nashville Cats.
The clearly panned separation of instruments on the stereo tracks opened up a world of country licks for me. Zal was my hero.
John Sebastion's live solo recordings also gave me much fodder for my own solo finger picking style.
I'm old enough that my love of the steel came many years before the Lovin' Spoonful was on the scene, but my ears naturally gravitated, and were often inspired by some of the more country influenced of the pop rock groups of that era. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 7 Jan 2011 11:27 am
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| then of course, rainbows all over my(your?) blues imbedded the godtone in my gray matter.... |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 7 Jan 2011 11:54 am
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| If I'm not mistaken Rainbows was written for Mamma Cass. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2011 12:47 pm
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Whoa!!! "Yellow Sun record"??? Is THAT what he says??
I've been wondering what that line really was for 44 years!!!
When I used to sing it back in the day, I settled on "Everyone is a-yellin' some record from Nashville," but I wasn't comfortable with it.  |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2011 4:02 pm
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| From reading the excellent book, "Desperados," I seem to recall it was Zal who played steel,,,, a bit. |
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Joe Goldmark
From:
San Francisco, CA 94131
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 11:11 am
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"Yellow sun record from Nashville, Tennessee" refers to the color of the Sun Records label and it's logo which shows sun rays. Technically, they should have said Memphis, Tennessee.... which is where Sun records was. I guess this wasn't obvious, sorry if it is and I'm just missing something.
Joe |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 11:15 am
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Joe, I believe that's what Roger meant by calling it a "glitch".
I entirely failed to get the lyric back then mostly, probably, because I had never seen a Sun record, or heard of Sun Records (I was just fifteen, you might say I was a musical proverbial knee-high  ); even if I had, though, the geographically inappropriate reference might still have thrown me off the scent! |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 1:30 pm
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Yes, that's what I meant. I can distinctly remember wondering about that lyric back in '66 - I'd never been to the USA and had only the sketchiest idea of Tennessee's geography, so I wondered if Sun Records was, in fact, located in both Memphis and Nashville.
It's all part of music folk-lore now. Still a great record!
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 2:20 pm
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It's a beautiful thing. Done by a local Memphis graphic artist I think. Some were damn near orange, but "orange Sun record from Nashville" wouldn't do.
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John Haspert
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 8:45 pm Lovin' Spoonful Steel Player
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Actually, another good resource would be Jerry Yester. He replaced Zal and now Jerry Yester, Butler and Boone are the originals that were still touring as the Lovin' Spoonful. I think one of Jerry's daughters mau also be sitting in as well. He would be the one to ask. In the 60's he was a Southern Calif boy that grew up in Burbank, Calif. His brother Jim had the glorious high Tenor parts in the Association. I think Jerry did a stint with the Association. Both Yester brothers have been in the MFQ, Modern Folk Quartet and are a wonderful combination. In any case, Jerry should know the answer.
_________________
Pedal Steel Guitar is "Music from Heaven" |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 13 Jan 2011 5:54 am
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| Good idea! I know someone who is friends with him. I will tell him to please ask Jerry. And also who played steel on "Brown To Blue" on Zally's solo record from the sixties. |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 13 Jan 2011 7:27 am
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I spoke / Emailed with Zally several times before his death. He did not play steel on any Spoonful recordings and didn't admit to ever having a pedal steel. Sebastian had a Maverick, which was heard on 'Nashville Cats'. I played several concerts opening for the Spoonful on the Dick Clark Cavalcade tours in 1966 or so. They did not have a pedal steel onstage. We played Nashville Municipal Auditorium and Memphis Mid-South Coliseum, among other venues. Zally played a solid body Guild and he could make that guitar sound like an electric piano one minute (e.g., Did You Ever Have to Make Up Your Mind) and a pedal steel the next (he would cover the pedal steel stuff on Nashville Cats on guitar). John did play a Wurlitzer electric piano (e.g., on Summer in the City) but some of Zal's guitar parts (Make Up Your Mind) sounded (to my ears) exactly like the Wurlitzer. Zally was a crazy man and a wonderful guitarist. What a shame he was deported. Our loss and Kingston, Ontario's gain. He was there from 1979 or so until his death.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Pete Finney
From:
Nashville Tn.
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Posted 13 Jan 2011 8:07 am
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Larry,
That's very cool that you got to play shows with them, I never got to see them live in their heyday though I bought as many of the records as I could at the time (I was 10 years old in '66).
But... It couldn't have been a Maverick on the Spoonful records I don't think even if Sebastian later bought one, because I don't think they started making them until the very early '70s... I'm pretty sure Sebastian told me it was an old Fender (400?) that was just in the studio and didn't belong to him... Not that it really matters, but since we're talking details here...
Still one of my favorite '60s bands. |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 13 Jan 2011 11:30 am
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That's what I recalled Zal telling me, Pete. I'm not sure I can resurrect the actual EMails but I'll try when I get a chance. Not knowing much Sho-Bud history it hadn't even dawned on me that it couldn't be a Mav that early on. I do know that when we opened for them there was no pedal steel onstage. THAT I would have noticed (although I might not have been able to tell you what it WAS). 
EDIT:
NOW I remember (as well as anyone remembers something from 45 years ago) -- he told me John HAD a Maverick. Perhaps I just assumed that was what was played on Nashville Cats.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Pete Finney
From:
Nashville Tn.
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Posted 13 Jan 2011 11:48 am
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Cool, Larry... just a small detail in any case. I'm really just jealous that you not only saw them play but got to share the stage multiple times, and get to know Zal!
Been listening to them all day because of this thread... Listening to "Nashville Cats" again it doesn't sound to me that Zal's really playing "steel licks" at all (though that's how I remember Sebastian describing it) but just a sort of Hank Garland/Grady Martin style jazzy-country guitar (sounds like a Gibson archtop maybe?) overdubbed on top of that cool muted "scratch" rhythm. It sounds to me like all the steel sounding stuff IS pedal steel; basic but nice.
Still a great sounding record for sure! |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Bob Blair
From:
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 13 Jan 2011 7:40 pm
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Larry, I met Zal in Kingston one night in the late 70's when I was going to school there - in the washroom of a club that was a good music venue. He said, "I hate to p*** beside someone I don't know....I'm Zal". I told him he was an old hero of mine and he said it made him feel old. Very pleasant guy
And a fine chef. He opened a great restaurant in Kingston called "Chez Piggy". |
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Steve Wilson
From:
Morgan Hill, California, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2011 10:24 pm Rain on the Roof
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I came across this YouTube video showing Zal sitting behind a steel on the song "Rain on the Roof" from 1966. I realize this is lip-synced, but maybe someone can identify the brand of steel. It doesn't show Zal or the steel that much, but I bet the trained eye can identify the model.
Great song, too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--9O1ElmXc8&feature=related |
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John Haspert
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2011 11:43 pm
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At first, I thought it looked like a Sho-Bud branded as a Fender. That's just a guess though as there are not a lot good views. The more I thought about it, the Fender logo is on the changer side, where the Sho-buds have the logo in the middle of the front apron. So it is likley a black or dark Fender 400 or Fender 1000. Maybe one of the Fender Steel Forum guys can decipher
_________________
Pedal Steel Guitar is "Music from Heaven" |
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Ron Davis
From:
Lake Arrowhead, California... We're a mile high. ;)
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Joe Jones
From:
Arkansas, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2011 11:22 am loving spoonfuls ?
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| JUST TALKED TO A MEMBER OF THE LOVING SPOONFULS ABOUT STEEL PLAYERS FOR THE SPOONFULS HE SAID RED RHODES PLAYED STEEL ONLY ON ONE SONG BACK IN THE DAY |
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Jason Odd
From:
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 27 Jan 2011 4:38 am
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Red is apparently on the last Spoonful' LP, that's the one titled something like Revelation/Revolution, and only has joe Butler as the original member.
Sebastian played the steel on the '66 LP, as noted, Zal does pretend to play it in the clip that's on youtube.
_________________
Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly. |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 27 Jan 2011 6:51 am
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My opinion on the last two posts:
Jason,
that song is "Never Going Back" written by John Stewart.
The solo is very good! But I always thought and still think that it was Sneaky Pete.
Joe
there's another song on another record called "Boredom" it might be that one, the Lovin' Spoonful member was talking about. |
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