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Topic: Taking A Sierra Sesion Apart |
Gary Cosden
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2011 2:36 pm |
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| I changed the strings on my Session today and noticed that it's getting a bit grimy. I plan on stripping it down, removing and cleaning the changer, etc. next month. I feel I can do all this just fine but since I have never done this to a Sierra I thought I would ask in the event that someone who has done this might have some recommendations or comments that would prove helpful. If so, thanks in advance. |
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baxter vaughan
From:
Lubbock, Texas 79424
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Posted 10 Jan 2011 2:52 pm
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gary take pictures and make good notes. these sierras are great horns..very well built, but can be a challenge to work on. just make sure you know what your doing before you do it!
from the voice of experience... |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2011 3:11 pm
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I would recommend just cleaning with a q-tip and compressed air.
Removing the changer seems overkill. |
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David Wright
From:
Pilot Point ,Tx USA.
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Posted 11 Jan 2011 9:06 am
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FYI..The changer is much different than most, you might want to go with Petes suggestion.   |
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Ross Shafer
From:
Petaluma, California
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Posted 11 Jan 2011 10:57 am
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My pal Tom Baker of Sierra helped me overhaul an old pre-Crown series SD12 recently and it was pretty grimy under the skirt as well.
Here's his basic tips:
1) Don't remove the changer if you don't have to and DON'T disassemble it unless you really, REALLY....REALLY have to (there's a lot of parts in these changers!!). He suggests flowing plenty of good quality lightweight lube (Tom uses Hoppe's 9 gun lube) through the changer while in the guitar (don't do this on the couch!) and let it sit until it isn't dripping oil anymore. If its so dirty you that need to use some sort of solvent Tom likes a cleaner/ lube called "Break free". I'm sure naptha or mineral spirits will work well too. There's lots opinions on cleaners and lubes here on the forum, so there's plenty of alternatives that will work fine.
2) If you do want to pull all the rods for the full cleanup...make up a complete rod chart….you’ll be glad you did…and really bummed if you don’t! Taking more pics than you think necessary to help document the current set up could pay off big time!
3) If you remove the lower return springs, use some masking tape to secure the fingers so they all remain lined up with each other. This will prevent the little nylon bushings (the Sierra name for these is "popcorns") the pull rods run through from falling out and getting lost....they're small! If you do pull the changer, don't lose any of these little gems....you can't do without them!
Have fun! |
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Gary Cosden
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2011 11:16 am
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| Thanks everyone. I have made a complete chart of the bellcrank/changer locations and I plan to take a lot of pictures. Thats a good tip on taping the fingers Ross - thanks. At this point I think I will go all the way and pull/disassemble the changer. I know its more complex than most and has a whole bunch of parts but I do want it all the way clean. |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 11 Jan 2011 11:33 am
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Gary, also you might want to burn the pictures onto a CD for safe keeping.
I took multiple pictures of my GES's undercarriage, and lost them all when the hard drive took a crap on me. But you can do it without, just a whole lot harder. But I did take good notes as well.
You're like me. I'll lube between complete pull downs, but when something is dirty, it first needs to be cleaned the Real way, before it gets lubed.
I'm sure you'll make out fine. Besides it's a great experience to know exactly how things work.
Let us know how you make out....... |
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Gary Cosden
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2011 12:29 pm
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| Don - good advice and thanks. I will take plenty of Pics and perhaps post some when I have finished. A lot of people have never seen the works on a Sierra and it is pretty impressive IMHO. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 11 Jan 2011 12:37 pm
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| Ross Shafer wrote: |
.......
3) If you remove the lower return springs, use some masking tape to secure the fingers so they all remain lined up with each other. This will prevent the little nylon bushings (the Sierra name for these is "popcorns") the pull rods run through from falling out and getting lost....they're small! If you do pull the changer, don't lose any of these little gems....you can't do without them!.... |
FWIW: Sometimes masking tape will de-stick if exposed to cleaning solvents, and duct tape can leave a residue.
So, the other thing you can do is weave one of those plastic zip ties (cable tie) through the nylon changer bushings (popcorn) which will not allow them to fall out of the changer fingers. Then cut'em off when you're done. |
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Ross Shafer
From:
Petaluma, California
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Posted 11 Jan 2011 12:51 pm
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....when you get that changer yanked outta there and have giving a full cleansing while intact....you'll see all the little bits and pieces in glorious detail...if a little voice says "hmmm, maybe I don't want to pull this apart"...definitely listen to the little voice!
If you do take it apart, take special note of the the nylon washers down by the lower fingers....they will most likely be trimmed with a flat on one side...be sure the flat goes back in it original orientation. |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 11 Jan 2011 12:59 pm
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Gary, That would be interesting to see. I had both of my D-10 Carters, stripped down completely. One on each end of the kitchen table. My wife loved that idea. 
I always enjoy seeing each of the different designs and workings of the Changers, etc.
And I'll add here, that after you're done, you'll have one of the finest working steels. It's amazing what a Real Cleaning and then an all new lube will do for a Pedal Steel. Just for the ease of playing, it's worth every bit of effort that was put into doing it the right way........ |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2011 1:14 pm Re: Taking A Sierra Sesion Apart
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| Gary Cosden wrote: |
| I changed the strings on my Session today and noticed that it's getting a bit grimy. |
Can you post a pic of the grimy stuff?
This seems like an incredible amount of work for something that is only "getting a bit grimy".
My Sierra Session is a well gigged/traveled '98 model, and keeping the overall linkage clean has been easy.
I sence a true "if it aint broke..." moment here.
Are you sure about this? |
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Gary Cosden
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2011 2:49 pm
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| I am the third owner of this guitar. It seems probable that all three owners used different lubes since the plastic threaded inserts at the bell cranks, for example, are getting black and somewhat "grimy" for lack of a better term. I can post a picture of this if you really want to see it but trust me, its dirty like when you use machine oil for a long time. (I have used triflow dry lube for the past 3 years on this guitar) I just want to get it all clean and lubed with the same stuff. It plays well and has no mechanical issues. I am not expecting miracles - just a slick, well lubed and clean guitar thats good to go for many more years. |
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David Wright
From:
Pilot Point ,Tx USA.
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 4:39 am
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Best of luck..    If I remember theres 500 + pieces and parts in a Sierra Changer.. that might be for D 10.. never the less thats 250+ per head...post pictures as you go, |
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Ross Shafer
From:
Petaluma, California
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 10:26 am
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dang close David....if you include every little thing including rivets, return springs and the associated hardware needed to build a Session changer there are 454 parts in a 10 string changer!
Of course some of those parts become riveted assemblies which won't be broken down in an overhaul....that makes the array of separate parts on the kitchen table down to around 400 pcs. or so....I think....these big numbers are making me woozy! |
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David Wright
From:
Pilot Point ,Tx USA.
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 10:29 am
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| Hang in there Ross, just don't get a part and let the wind blow everything all OVER!!!.. I think my Dad was having a bad day when he designed that changer!!! |
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Gary Cosden
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 10:46 am
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| David - to the best of my knowledge this is your old guitar. I will post pics when I get around to doing it in a month or so. |
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David Wright
From:
Pilot Point ,Tx USA.
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Posted 12 Jan 2011 11:03 am
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| Please do, if it's black & Gold, it just might be... |
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Gary Cosden
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 6 Feb 2011 8:46 am Miller Time!
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I got around to this project sooner than expected and now it is complete. I decided to do a complete tear down including the changer. Several have commented on how complicated and unique this changer is and I don’t disagree. Tearing it down and reassembling it is not for the faint of heart but it is not brain surgery either. I would not discourage anyone from trying this provided they have taken a good hard look at this first and that they decide they feel up to it. That being said I will try to write up another post on the specifics of taking this changer apart and reassembling it while it is still fresh in my mind.
A lot of my “before” pictures just did not come out well enough to post but I did get several good shots that more or less tell the story.
You wanted to see the dirt and here it is. One shot shows a line of grime down the side of a changer finger. It is not a shadow. The other shows the threaded inserts from the bell cranks just as they came out of the guitar. The grimy changer parts shot is self explanatory.
By the way I found 2 ball ends stuck in the changer grime! One had no string attached and the other was a plain string with about 1” left on it. I had no idea they were there and prior to this tear down everything worked just fine. No binding or not returning to pitch correctly or anything to indicate there was something stuck up in there. Could have been a bad day if one of them had migrated to where it could do some damage while in the middle of a gig!
The guitar is 100% complete now and it is playing and sounding better than ever.
26 photos here:
http://s1090.photobucket.com/albums/i380/LushPyle/ |
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Ross Shafer
From:
Petaluma, California
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Posted 6 Feb 2011 9:59 am
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| you're a brave man...Good job! |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 6 Feb 2011 11:56 am
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Tom Baker (of Sierra) once told me he had a special "jig" for assembling their changer. I forgot to ask him if the "jig" was a special dance he performed before assembling the changer or a tool. I rather think it was a dance to calm his nerves  |
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Joe Naylor
From:
Avondale, Arizona, USA
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Posted 6 Feb 2011 7:41 pm
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I have never taken one apart - but listen to what David agreed with compressed air and Q--tip small acid type or glue brush helps
I have cleaned a couple that way and it works.
Joe Naylor
www.steelseat.com
and Road Cases and some other stuff too
_________________
Joe Naylor, Avondale, AZ (Phoenix) Announcer/Emcee owner www.steelseat.com *** OFFERING SEATS AND Effects cases with or without legs and other stuff ****** -Desert Rose Guitar S-10, Life Member of the Arizona Carport Pickers Assoc., Southwest Steel Guitar Assoc., Texas Steel Guitar Assoc., GA Steel Guitar Assoc., KS Steel Guitar Assoc. (Asleep at the Steel) tag line willed to me by a close late friend RIP |
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Whip Lashaway
From:
Monterey, Tenn, USA
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Posted 7 Feb 2011 7:55 am
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Gary, All I've ever done to mine is tape a garbage bag under it and pour lighter fluid through the changer. Let it drip dry and then put some 30W oil through it and let it drip dry. I do this every year or so and I've never had any trouble with them. You are indeed a very brave (or hight skilled)man to attempt a breakdown and reassembly of any changer. Good luck and as Gregery Peck asks the hired hand in Big Country before getting on Old Thunder "Any last minute advise?". The hired hand replied "Yes, doon do it!"
_________________
Whip Lashaway
Sierra E9/B6 12 string
Sierra E9/B6 14 string
Excel S12 8x9 blue
Excel S12 8x9 black |
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Gary Cosden
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 7 Feb 2011 7:59 am
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| Too late Whip - it's already done. See my post above. |
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David Wright
From:
Pilot Point ,Tx USA.
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Posted 9 Feb 2011 4:00 am
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Gary,
Nice job!!!... looks great... if thats my old guitar, it was 8 & 6 or 9 & 6...same guitar on my 2 cd's... |
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