Permanently glued on necks

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Anyone have thoughts on permanently glued on necks?

Bill Duncan
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Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Bill, I think and hope that nobody would glue a neck permanently on a steel guitar. It would make no sense and would make for a mess to replace if it was ever needed.
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Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Bill Duve · From: Limestone .New York, USA

The back of my steel's neck was concave which happens when wood is finished only on one side..To remedy this I filled the concave with marine epoxy and laid a parting sheet of household saran wrap on the steel and screwed down the neck, When hardened I removed the sheet and excess and its bedded to the steel but not glued, Did it help anything? No....

Jason Hull · Posted 7 Jan 2011 2:46 am

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I assume you're talking about a wood neck. It's not clear to me that gluing an aluminum neck would give a more secure bond than bolting it in.

Besides this - the fastest way to kill the tone of my pedal steels is to screw the neck(s) down tight as a drum. This has been discussed here many, many times. So I wouldn't be so sure that a glued-on neck would improve the tone.

Of course, there's the obvious issue of having to unglue the neck, which is sometimes required to do other things like remove the pickup or changer. I suppose one could design the steel so neck removal isn't required to service other parts of the guitar. But some of my favorite steels require this. Part of their sound is undoubtedly due to the way the neck interacts with the changer, and I wouldn't change them one iota.

If you think gluing the neck is a great idea, why not just make the neck an integrated piece of the top? Carve the entire top/neck piece out of a single piece of wood.

Fender Teles and Strats have bolted-on necks. I have played many Tele-style and Strat-style guitars with glued-in necks - other things being the same (pickups, bridge, body wood, and so on), I never thought it made any noticeable difference, and you lose the easy serviceability. I think Leo had the right idea. People talk about how important the glued-in neck joint is to the sound of an old Martin guitar. Collings seems to manage to make what many players consider the best replica of an old Martin with a bolted-in neck -

Properly done, I don't think bolting things in is, in any way, 'inferior' to glued-in. There are always tradeoffs in design. One can do anything - the question is always, "What to you gain or lose by making this or that change?"

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Thanks for the thoughts.

The reason I ask is I plan to glue the neck permanently on an MSA D10 I am building a new body for.

I am interested in hearing the findings of someone who has tried it. I can see some benefits in gluing, solidity for one. I have never had a problem with cabinet flex with this guitar but there is some, so solid gluing could have an effect on that. If I notice an improvement in tone and sustain, as I suspect could happen, that would be a good thing.

I made the wood neck from solid wood and will mount the changer and pickup on it as in the original with no aluminum piece. The neck and entire body is very clear, straight grained, carefully quarter sawn hardwood, with almost perfectly verticle grain. Solid and rigid is one main objective.

To answer Kevin's question, "Why?". Because I've never done it before, but always wanted to.

I know it presents some construction difficulties, but I will finish the neck and body individually then attach the neck with wood glue after final buffing of the neck and body.
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Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

David, To answer your question, "Why not carve the neck into the top a an integral part?"

It is easier to finish and buff if done in two pieces and later glued on after final buffing.
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Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

I build all my lap steels and acoustic steels as neck-through-body, so there is no separate neck. Having no joint gives much better sustain.

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

I would not (ever) glue the neck onto the body of a PSG, for one simple reason: once its on there's no going back.
If you don't hit it perfectly right with first time with regards to tone and sustain (and all else), you can't easily "tune" a glued connection to try to improve on anything.

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Alan,

The electric guitar folks have been advocating a glued, solid neck through the body for years, Chet Atkins and Merle Travis are two that come to mind right off. Hard for me to argue with those guys.

George,

I certainly understand what you're saying. However, solid would remove a varible, for better or worse.
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Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Yes, "solid" certainly removes a variable, but to me gluing anything onto the body wouldn't remove variables well enough so I opted for a solid neck that carries all "my constants" above the body - more like the "solid neck through the body" advocated by many on regular guitars...

The neck is only glued (laminated) onto itself lengthwise, and screwed onto the body at specific points. Allows body and neck to "breathe" and vibrate individually, and together, and provides optimal control of the all-important interaction.

In most regular PSGs the body and neck need to interact in a controlled way to get the most out of whatever "body-tone" the individual PSG has, and IMO that control of interaction should not be eliminated by gluing body and neck permanently together.

Of course, if you do a good job and have a bit of luck, a glued-on neck may work just fine Cool

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Georg,

That is an interesting arrangment with the neck. Is the neck "floating" or does it contact the body? How far off the body is it? Three or four thousandths, or more?

Do you get buzzing or noises at time?
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Rich Peterson · From: Moorhead, MN

If I were going to put a Strat or Tele together for "ultimate" tone and sustain, I would remove the finish on both the neck and the body where there would be contact. Then bolt them together. Neither finish nor glue to stop transfer of the vibrations. And I think the neck of a guitar is a very significant component of tone.

But, a PSG is a very different instrument, and I would consider that there have been numerous builders in the last 50+ years. Certainly some of them have tried a glued on neck, but it isn't used today by anyone that I know of. That strongly suggests that it isn't a good idea.

However, since you are making a new neck and body for the instrument, you apparently have an old neck and body that you would discard? Try gluing them and see how it turns out.

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Georg,

Thank you for some enlightening information. I read your article and it has me thinking a little out of the box.
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Jason Hull · Posted 10 Jan 2011 3:11 am

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Jason,

I have not read that article, but I am not suprised. However, perception is reality, and if you percieve something a particular way, then for you that is reality.

I have a picking friend who keeps his guitar eq'd very mellow and hard toward the bass end. He is always telling me that I evidently can't hear the higher pitched tones or I would eq my PSG more mellow and cut the highs. I contend it's because I like the brighter sound and set it brighter because that's the sound I like and want.

Who knows?
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Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

The title of this thread doesn't mention pedal steel guitars, so the responses have become ambiguous. I wouldn't glue the neck onto a pedal steel or console steel guitar, but most lap steels and all Weissenborns don't have separate necks.

Then there's the subject of fretboards. Most early PSGs and Console Steels have their fretboards nailed on. These can cause problems, because the tacks often rust and break when you try to remove them, leaving you with a problem when you want to put a new tack into the same hole, which is still occupied by half of the old tack. It's very easy to scratch or bend the fingerboard when removing the tacks. When I come against a tacked-on fingerboard that I have to remove while refinishing the body, I usually replace it with tiny screws, with Philips heads. You're less likely to slip and scratch the paintwork with Philips-head screws. I think they should be universal.

Glued-on fingerboards can be a real annoyance to remove, and sometimes it's impossible to remove them without damage. Sad

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I thought the fact that this was posted in the "Pedal Steel" forum resolved the ambiguity between pedal and nonpedal steel.

My guess is that the only way to really understand the effect of gluing on a PSG neck is to carefully try and document the sound both ways. Of course, you probably want to carefully try and document the bolt-on version first, and then move to the glued-in version, since it's much easier going that direction.

I think it's tough to make unbiased assessments of bolt-on vs. glued-in without doing careful double-blind studies of exactly the same guitar done both ways. There are too many other variables with different examples of the exact same design to draw reasonable conclusions - my opinion.

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Dave,

You are right. I am being careful and after thirty four years playing this guitar I should be able to notice any differences in sound/tone, but I am taking nothing for granted. I am really interested in what I notice sound wise with the body change.

One of the main objectives is to visually change the look of the guitar with real wood and polished lacquer. I can give it the look and color I want. It is also a chance to totally disassemble the guitar and clean and polish the mechanical hardware.

I'm also interested in how much of an effect quarter sawn hardwood has on body flex, as opposed to the Formica covered dieboard it is now constructed of. As I said earlier, the guitar has some flex, but not enough to be a problem.
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