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Topic: How do you "thicken" your sound? |
Mike Greenberg
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 28 Dec 2010 9:20 pm |
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I've been doing more direct recording lately as well as sending the direct out of my amp into the board during live shows and I consistently find that my sound is too "thin" for my taste regardless of how I EQ things.
Setup is: GFI Ultra keyless (George L p/U) into Goodrich Matchbox 7A into Hilton low profile volume pedal into Nashville 112. I sometimes use a delay but not typically.
Any suggestions for additions or subtractions to this setup that might add some body to the sound? I was thinking about a pre-amp of some sort.
--Thanks |
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Dave Simonis
From:
Stevens Point, WI USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2010 9:40 pm
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Mike,
I believe mic'ing your amp vs. using the direct out sometimes can help - especially if you like the sound coming out the amp front. To me the sound can be different running direct to a sound board. Just make sure you use a decent mic else you're no better off.
I am sure others have their preferences - that's mine.
_________________
Dave Simonis
Fiddle: Zeta, Arthur Conner, many others.../Steel: GFI SD-10 Ultra.../Mandolin: Breedlove.../Guitar: Gibson, Fender, Taylor.../Amps: Peavey NV112, Evans FET 500.../Others: Hilton, Goodrich, Stereo Steel, Pendulum Pre-amp... |
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Chuck Snider R.I.P.
From:
West Virginia, USA - Morgantown, WV
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Posted 28 Dec 2010 10:07 pm
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Mike, I think your use of the Hilton pedal and the Matchbox is a bit a bit of redundancy. My understanding is the Hilton pedal is doing basically what the Matchbox is doing. I also believe if you go direct out (the XLR line-out) from the NV112, you are going out of the NV112 pre-amp, and before the NV112 power amp tone controls. That is what I was told on here once after doing that on one gig. Although I could be mistaken on that point. Not sure what a pre-amp would do for you that you don't have in the setup you're using. You might try just micing the amp as suggested, and removing the Matchbox from the chain. I have seen multiple threads on here that the Matchbox is not needed when using a Hilton pedal.
-Chuck
_________________
GFI U-12 Ultra Keyless, Carter Black U-12, both with Alumitones, and a sweet '70 Sho-Bud Permanent D-10, NV400 in Rick Johnson cabs, NV112, '73 Vibrosonic in Rick Johnson cabs, Hilton pedal, Steeler's Choice seat, Bessdang Gizmos from Dale Hansen, and a few other widgets and doodads.
I may not sound good, I just don't wanna sound bad. |
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Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Florida USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2010 10:09 pm
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I think a lot of factors can go into how "thick" a sound one can or cannot get:
- How close to the bridge a player is picking.
- The amp's settings.
- Is a delay being used?
- How hard one picks.
- The angle of pick attack.
- And, of course, WHAT guitar, amp, pickup, etc. one uses.
- What mic is being used and where that mic is placed.
Yes, yes, I know. Some players can get a thick sound out of whatever guitar they sit down to play. But some players can't and it's usually a combination of factors that contributes to a thin sound. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 28 Dec 2010 10:23 pm
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You could try slightly heavier strings, if you don't mind the increased pedal and lever pressure. For awhile I was using heavier strings on 3 thru 6 of the
E9 neck, and there is a noticeable difference in the tone. Just a thought. |
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Rich Hlaves
From:
Wildomar, California, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2010 11:05 pm
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For direct recording you might try a tube preamp as the last "box" in the signal chain before the board or computer. Same goes for live if you can't mic the amp.
You don't have to spend a ton of dough to get good results. I have a couple of Art Tube MP preamps ($30)I use for live work and for recording with good results. They also double as a direct box when needed. Getting a tube in the signal chain will help your tone IMO.
_________________
On man....let the smoke out of another one. |
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John Roche
From:
England
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Posted 29 Dec 2010 1:27 am
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| I would do it post recording, that is if you are using something like Audition to record too, there are plenty of EQ plugins within these programs, another way would be copy the steel track and insert it in to another track and reduce the high end and fatten up the bass , a little adjustment to each track will result in a fatter steel sound ... |
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Dave Boothroyd
From:
Staffordshire Moorlands
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Posted 29 Dec 2010 1:39 am
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| Multi Band compression post recording. Probably used as Side Chain Compression, sometimes called Parallel Compression. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2010 8:10 am
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| You might try adding a little chorus. |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 29 Dec 2010 8:23 am
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these critters are hard to get - seen circulatin' under the counter
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2010 8:31 am
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Crowbear, you'd make a million selling THAT pedal!!
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Best regards,
Mike |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 29 Dec 2010 8:32 am
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On that NV112 I'd make sure the bass is full on and the mids about 11 or 12 o'clock and treble to taste. Also you can try "double miking" the cabinet with a couple of Shure SM57's with one facing the speaker about half way between the center of the speaker and the edge and another behind the amp facing the rear of the speaker on the opposite side in approximately the same position..........JH in Va.
_________________
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 29 Dec 2010 10:47 am
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| lose the matchbox and try raising your pickup slightly. |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Rene Brosseau
From:
Chatham,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 29 Dec 2010 8:38 pm tone
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If you mean you sound thin on the recording...You walk in the studio & the first thing the sound engineer says is "Wow, that thing is cool!...What is it?"...there's your problem...here's never seen or recorded a steel guitar...he will struggle with the volume because he's watching you constantly move you volume pedal & will have no idea what the tone should be like..see if you can get in on the mixing to adjust the sound it should be...this happens to me over & over...most good studio guys will suggest a mike
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Franklin #130, Melobar Skreemer, Wechter Scheerhorn Resonator, Nashville 112, Boss DD 3 |
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Jeff Hyman
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2010 12:23 pm
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Mike,
Might consider using two amps in stereo and run two lines to the mixer.... one for each amp. I'd use two different types of amps, and spread them separately on the Mains. I use a Webb and a Hotrod Deluxe. Took me a long time to get the sweet fatness. I do use a single coil pickup. I wonder what part that plays on the mix.
$.02 |
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Steve English
From:
Baja, Arizona
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Posted 30 Dec 2010 2:07 pm
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Mike,
What makes for a desired tone from your NV112 usually doesn't translate to a desired tone via direct outs. Your speaker and cabinet, as well as placement, are instrumental in shaping your tonal characteristics. The direct out does not contain these attributes.
You didn't mention where you were taking the direct out signal from during the recording process...
Live sound you said direct out from the NV112 amp: Set the amp like you want to hear it. At the mixing board reduce highs at 2-3k and/or, if necessary, boost 300-400hz for "fatness" on the bottom. A good sound person ( and engineer) will know about frequency layering concerning the total mix.
From my experience, these high and low freq bands are generally perceived as dominant center frequencies of the steel guitar as heard through PA systems. My guess is these will make the most profound change in EQ through the PA.
Where do you take the signal out when recording? |
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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Dan Blaisdell
From:
Raleigh, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2010 5:54 pm
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PM sent.
_________________
GFI Ultra SD10 3+4,[Sarno Black Box], Hilton VP, Zoom MS-50, Special 130, Walker cases, Cobra Coil strings/bar, Not enough time. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 10:31 am
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| Are you doing a lot of editing? Cutting and pasting with your tracks? |
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John Groover McDuffie
From:
LA California, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2010 11:16 am
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| Corn starch - pour it into the amp chassis while stirring briskly, then simmer over a low flame for about five minutes. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 1 Jan 2011 5:12 pm
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Mike,
One simple thing to try is borrow an old Emmons PP and play it to see if your problem goes away. It might be that your steel is not a good match for you. That has been the case for myself and many steel players I know. I suggest using a PP for the test because it is very difficult to get a thin sound out of those beasts.
_________________
Bob |
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Mike Greenberg
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 1 Jan 2011 8:47 pm Thank you!
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| I just want to thank everyone for all of their thoughtful responses.I'm going to go ahead and try a number of the suggestions and let everyone know what works (hopefully)! |
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Jason Hull
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Posted 2 Jan 2011 4:36 am
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| John Groover McDuffie wrote: |
| Corn starch - pour it into the amp chassis while stirring briskly, then simmer over a low flame for about five minutes. |
Peanut butter on the speaker cone works well, too, and there's no cooking involved!  |
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