| What would you buy |
| Jazz |
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32% |
[ 17 ] |
| Big Band |
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26% |
[ 14 ] |
| Traditional Catholic |
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9% |
[ 5 ] |
| Other |
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30% |
[ 16 ] |
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| Total Votes : 52 |
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| Author |
Topic: Thinking of doing a new CD in 2011 |
Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 25 Dec 2010 10:47 pm |
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We all know there has been all types of music done by steel players and I pretty well know what I'm good at but have always wanted to do a couple things a little different for me. So I want your feedback. Now I'll probably do these at home more than likely with BIAB for several reasons. First of all to do a cd of top quality with a real band has just got too expensive. The market will not bear the cost. For every CD I sell @$15 at least four get burned and given to friends. I completely understand. So
I have to keep my cost to a minimum. Plus it doesn't make sense to spend $1,200 on artwork like we used to do either. A few guys can do this and still make a little money. Pappa John was the master, Doug does well and when Buddy and Jeff were still in the biz they did well. Ok, enough economics. Here are my ideas.
#1) I have always wanted to do a jazz record. Not a way out there jazz record but bebop standards with steel, piano, bass and drums. For this record I would use at least one live player, Johnny Case on piano. Johnny is one of my favorite musicians and I would want his input on arrangments.
#2) I have always wanted to do a Count Basie style big band record. The premise being that the steel would be used as a vocal would have been in the Basie charts such as Sinatra, Tony Bennett and also used as the featured solo instrument in Basie instrumentals. I want to keep this Real Big Band not Nashvilleized. I loved the stuff that Emmons and Pennington did but it was built more around Nashville.
#3) I want to do a cd of traditional catholic music with the traditional instrumentation and voices only adding steel as lead vocal or lead instrument.
My hopes are high and I have a lot to learn to do all of this. I'm looking for song ideas for all three projects. Tell me if you would buy any of them, part of them or all of them. I know to most steel players the Catholic market is limited but I know where to market that one. I would like to hear your positive thoughts, you can keep the negative ones to yourselves, they won't get me anywhere.
I'm just starting to learn BIAB, and I'm about to jump into Pro-Tool 8.
Thanks for your input. Maybe I'll have something out next year that some of you might enjoy.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967.
Last edited by Johnny Cox on 26 Dec 2010 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 25 Dec 2010 11:25 pm
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since any one category is going to have a semi-limited consumer base, i think you might consider a mixture of anything you feel inspired by. at least that way most of us steel players would get to hear you doing what you love. no matter what, this seems to be the time for you to take advantage of good energy flowing your way. good luck with whatever you decide. we know it will be great playing.
..be sure to put 'some' bebop on it! |
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Peter den Hartogh
From:
Cape Town, South Africa
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Posted 26 Dec 2010 1:47 am
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Listen to Chris...words of wisdom!
_________________
1977 Sho~Bud D10 ProIII Custom; Sho~Bud SD10 The Professional ; ETS S10 5x5;
Fender 1000; 1993 Remington U12; 1978 Emmons S10 P/P; GeorgeB Weissenborn;
Fluger Cat-Can; Asher Electro Hawaiian; Gibson BR4; Fender FS52; Guyatone 8str;
Fender Resonator ; Epiphone Coronet 1937; Rickenbacher Ace; Rickenbacher NS;
Dynalap 8string; Harbor Lights 8string; Aiersi Tri-Cone; Fender Stringmaster |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2010 12:32 pm
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If you're going to go jazz, I'd personally rather hear as few other instruments as possible. There are some CD's by people whom I know are great players, where I can't really hear what they're doing too well because of the piano, rhythm guitar and other stuff. And PLEASE no synthesized "horns" or "strings"... I've wondered why a good steel player doesn't use the studio more, recording their own "horn section" or rhythm parts and then overdubbing. If it sounds good, it is good.
Good examples of where I can hear the steel are the 3now4 CD's from Dave Easley, and the solo CD by Bill Stafford. In contrast, I have three of Doug Jernigan's CD's where his chordal work is kind of buried. Also, it being a Steel Guitar CD I'd rather hear two or three steel guitar solos (even better, a single long, really-built solo) than a harmonica, fiddle, lead guitar trade-off routine. I mean, it's nice to have friends... maybe they should make a CD too!  |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 26 Dec 2010 1:51 pm
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| I'd love to see a bona fide jazz effort from you Johnny. I think we're way overdue. I know I'd buy it. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2010 4:38 pm
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I voted for the Catholic music because I'd like to hear it played on steel. It's probably the least commercial option, though. I've often thought of recording some Lutheran hymns because that was the music that influenced me the most as a child. That, and Bach.
Jazz played with BIAB isn't jazz, in my opinion. It's just practice. If you're going to do a jazz CD, get together with a piano player or guitarist and just turn on the recorder.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 26 Dec 2010 5:15 pm
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Actually Bob, the Catholic record is probably the most commercial as the steel guitar fan base is rather small in comparison. I'm Catholic and there are hundreds of catholic web sites clamoring for any new catholic music. Also EWTN which is the worlds largest religious radio and television media outlet sells tons of independent catholic music. Joan and I have both played steel in Catholic Churches and they for the most part have no idea what the thing is but they love it.
As far as BIAB I would only use it as part of the band. And I have heard some incredible BIAB work. As to another posters thoughts, there would be no waiting through guitar, fiddle, banjo, ect solos to hear another eight bars of steel. I'm sick of that. As I said, the jazz record would be steel, piano, bass and drums.
The Basie record would be just that. I get tired at steel shows any more having to listen to six other instruments to finally hear the steel playerni waited all day to hear. (flame suit on).
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 26 Dec 2010 7:27 pm
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Those of you voting OTHER please specify what you would like to hear. I can tell you it won't be " A Way To Survive " or " Sweet Memories". And it won't be rock n roll. There is some wonderful rock n roll music I'm sure but I'm just not the guy to play it. I did forget to mention that Western Swing and maybe some Blues Shuffles could be in the mix as well. This will not be the year for redoing what has already been redone for me anyway.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 26 Dec 2010 9:44 pm
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| Johnny Cox wrote: |
| Those of you voting OTHER please specify what you would like to hear. ... This will not be the year for redoing what has already been redone for me anyway. |
I'd like to hear you get as "outside" as you can. Move away from traditional song structures and instrumentation, then see where your imagination takes you. |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 26 Dec 2010 11:20 pm
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I find even the very best instrumental steel albums a bit boring, with a few exceptions by Hughey, Emmons and Green. Three or four songs in a row, that's about my limit.
What attracted me to pedal steel from the beginning was the fact that it is the ultimate backup instrument, not primarily a solo vehicle.
When solo steel really works is when the material chosen is composed as an instrumental piece. Melodies intended to be sung are rarely interesting enough to make good instrumentals (like "Jambalaya" and thousands more).
That said, what I would like to hear is some Mozart on multiple steels. One of the horn concertos, a clarinet quartet, symphony no. 40, Eine kleine Nachtmusik or something else on the lighter side. Surely an interesting challenge to arrange and perform!
BTW: Noone will ever be able to convince me that instrumental music can be defined as religious, regardless of faith. It's just music! |
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Mitch Drumm
From:
Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
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Posted 27 Dec 2010 12:41 am
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| Johnny Cox wrote: |
| Those of you voting OTHER please specify what you would like to hear. I can tell you it won't be " A Way To Survive " or " Sweet Memories" |
That's the best move you can make.
I agree with your comments about "Nashvilleization" on the Pennington/Emmons recordings. They sounded too slick to me. I'm sure that is sacrilege around here, but that's how they struck me.
The BIAB situation is tough. I understand the economics of getting all "real" musicians, but the so-called percussion I have heard in other BIAB recordings really turns me off.
The BIAB percussion examples I have heard are totally mechanical and lifeless. I'd rather listen to a ticking grandfather clock or time bomb. Maybe it is operator error and BIAB doesn't have to be that way?
If you need the percussion to make the recordings OK, but I'd hope you can drop it out before you start duplicating the master for sale. There are all kinds of great recordings out there with no drums.
I'd vote for a combo of jazz/big band/1920s through 1940s pop tunes that have rarely if ever been done on a steel CD. There are thousands of tunes in that category.
I guess it's somewhat of a mystery why a steel CD will or won't sell. I'm sure there are people who won't buy it if it doesn't contain some of the most obvious choices in any particular genre. That's too bad. They want "A Way To Survive" or "Home In San Antone".
I'd hesitate to say "western swing" would be OK, because that might mean yet another recording of a Bob Wills warhorse, which no one needs. It's been done. If you insist, make it very obscure.
Make sure you take most of the rides.
Didn't Johnny Case recently join this forum? |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2010 9:43 am
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| Johnny Cox wrote: |
| I get tired at steel shows any more having to listen to six other instruments to finally hear the steel playerni waited all day to hear. (flame suit on). |
I'm with you on that one. Most of the guys that play the shows these days play a song through once, let every body else play, then play it once more to end. Then they get a singer or two up, play a little backup and sometimes don't even play the intro or the ride.
I can understand nervous rank amateurs doing this, but to have seasoned pros doing the same, some of which are even paid to play, is unacceptable to me.
I've heard the same thing on steel CDs, but I know that doesn't apply to you.  |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2010 10:04 am
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For what it's worth -
If you decide to do a jazz CD, and you're concerned about the cost of musicians, I think Bob's suggestion is the best. A real "naked" CD, steel and piano duo, would be a truly wonderful thing. If you have the bread, add a bass, but either way, musicians playing jazz with each other is unbeatable.
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2010 10:19 am
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| Christopher Woitach wrote: |
| If you have the bread, add a bass, but either way, musicians playing jazz with each other is unbeatable. |
Johnny plays bass better than most others I've heard. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 27 Dec 2010 2:09 pm
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| Per Berner wrote: |
| BTW: Noone will ever be able to convince me that instrumental music can be defined as religious, regardless of faith. It's just music! |
I would agree with you, Per, if the listener has never heard the song before. However, if you play an instrumental version of a well-known religious song, like "Amazing Grace", for example, the audience will undoubtedly be thinking of the religious words to the song, and all the personal, spiritual associations they already have with the song. So, for some people, even the instrumental version can create a religious experience for the listener. I guess Religiosity is in the ear of the beholder.
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2010 2:47 pm
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I guess this is for the Other catagory, but Original Compositions are always a good idea.
Another idea... You might consider recording a Live DVD with your new bandmates in the Gene Watson band. You guys will be getting tight in the upcoming months. Just record a set of you guys rippin' through whatever musical faves develop amongst you all (an example might be Ronnie Millers sets with Charlie Prides band... I love their version of Spinnin' Wheel).
A one set Live DVD (no studio, no overdubbs). Folks get to see you play as well as hear you.
You could also play a set with them at Steel Conventions, prompting sales of the DVD. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 27 Dec 2010 6:42 pm
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I'm getting some pearls her, keep them coming. I've heard some really cheesy BIAB stuff but I've hear some really good stuff too. If I do the jazz record it more than likely will be just me, Johnny Case a bass player and drummer. My favorite steel record is still Buddy Emmons black album. Steel, piano, bass and drums. My favorite steel set at a steel show was the year Lloyd played with just himself, upright bass, acoustic guitar and drums. I got to hear Lloyd for 30 minutes.
I got balled out at a steel show a couple years ago because I didn't use three fiddles and a clarinet player. Another steel club doesn't invite Joan and I to play anymore because they have four other lead instruments and the last time we were there we didn't let every instrument play a solo on every song.. So, you will hear plenty of steel on these records. I have done the shuffles, ballads and normal steel stuff already. I have to do something that inspires me. The catholic music project is something I want to do and feel I need to do. I'm talking with another forum member who has had experience in Catholic music ministry that is pointing me in some directions. Go ahead and give me song titles if you have ideas.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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Bill Cutright
From:
Akron, OH
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Posted 27 Dec 2010 7:19 pm
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| It's tough, these days, to find a marketable theme and commit to it...be that as it is,... i always liked Curly's Lightfoot record, so I'd vote other and opt for a collection focused on a single artist. |
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Dave A. Burley
From:
Franklin, In. USA
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Posted 27 Dec 2010 8:12 pm Johnny Cpx
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I've listened to you a lot, Johnny, and you are one of my favorites.
What would I like to hear? I would like to hear at least one cut on your new cd featuring only the steel as a lead instrument improvising on mostly the lower five strings along with a good jazz rhythm guitarist playing only rhythm on a non electric arch top acoustic guitar, a jazz dog house bassist who also uses the bow and a drummer using mostly snare with no fancy cutups.
Also when it comes to the keyboard, an old upright piano with no gimmicks and played by a good night club jazz pianist who has never worked with the steel guitar before.
Listen to the YouTube cut featuring Julian Tharpe playing Danny Boy with the legendary acoustic bassist, Slam Stewart.
Good luck Johnny....I will be in line when you get it done.
Dave A. Burley |
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Joe Goldmark
From:
San Francisco, CA 94131
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Posted 27 Dec 2010 10:07 pm
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Hi Johnny,
Glad to hear you're now thinking of using live musicians. I vote for bebop with a real four piece band. You'll never regret using great players over BIAB. My pet peeve is fake drums, it brings everything else down. It might work for the religious market, but it won't cut it with jazz. This is your art and the most important thing is making a recording that you're proud of, and can still listen to in five years. You mentioned the Black Album, also remember how exciting Doug Jernigan's "Uptown To Country" album was/is.
Good luck,
Joe |
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Johnny Cox
From:
Williamsom WVA, raised in Nashville TN, Lives in Hallettsville Texas
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Posted 28 Dec 2010 10:39 am
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I've never been much of a composer but I did write an original that is on my Ballads Shuffles and Swing Cd called Joanie's Song. I have also written one called "Wolfin' Around" that I have now recorded twice, once with the Time Jumpers for a cd that was never released and again for the Time Warp
Top Hands Project that was started earlier this year that got put on hold when executive producer Bert Winston passed away. The jazz quartet album will probably be financially possible for me. But I really want to do the big band one too. And there is no way I can
do it using all live players.
I'm still seeing lots of votes in the other category but not many suggestions.
_________________
Johnny "Dumplin" Cox
"YANKIN' STRINGS & STOMPIN' PEDALS" since 1967. |
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Richard Gonzales
From:
Davidson, NC USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2010 5:54 am
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Hi Johnny- I would like you to consider the following songs in your Catholic CD.
Prayer of St. Francis, Be Not Afraid,
Here I Am Lord and On Eagles Wings.
Thank You, Richard |
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