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Topic: Fender 400, Pull rods instead of cables? |
Fred Shannon
From:
Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Dec 2010 8:24 am |
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Anyone, beside me, ever substituted pull rods instead of cables for the Fender 400 type changer? If so, tell us about it and with pictures if you have them.
phred
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There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2010 8:56 am
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Never tried it myself but the two pics at the bottom of this page shows Fenders with pull rods.
http://www.unclestick.com/fender/fender-mods.htm
Can you post pics of yours and tell us about it? I have a stockpile of Fender bodies/parts and may try it someday myself. 
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Fred Shannon
From:
Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Dec 2010 1:59 pm
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Dave, just like always i got excited about the 400 changer after reading
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/012250.html
on the forum. I used 3/32" brass welding rod for the pulls and fabricated a triangle like the Sho Bud Maverick used for multiple string pulls. The ability to use the ShoBud ferrules and Jim Sliff's (and others)) ideas about the stops enabled me to have multiple pulls on the same string with different pedals. I only used 2 knees LKL and RKL because I didn't want to fool around with right pull mechanisms needed.
I had an old MSA Beater cabinet here that I used. Carson Wells has a unique square rod axle and bell crank system I used for 'up front' conversion from the floor pedals and the two knee levers.
I stayed basically with the old E6 tuning system that Al Marcus and I worked on for a time. I did alter it a bit by adding an F# string between the G# and E strings on string 6. The two knees raised the E's to F and lowered them to Eb. The rest of the tuning was straight up E6.
Now that my interest has been ginned back up, I'll try to locate that old axe and maybe really do something with an 8 string psg. I've always maintained, when properly set up, the old Fender changer is the way to go. Simple but very accurate tuning wise....Even I can understand its operation.
I'd like to find a Fender 800 changer. Would make it more flexible with less frustration.
Thanks for the comeback and I would appreciate hearing from you on your thoughts. I'll try to take some pics when I find that old body.
phred
_________________
There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!
Think about it!! |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2010 2:18 pm
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Have you visited the Fender Cable PSG forum yet?
http://z8.invisionfree.com/Fender_Steel_Forum/index.php?
Even if you went to rods I'm sure they'll let you in!
Lot's of good info on tunings and mods and parts. It doesn't get as much activity as this forum but someone will eventually reply to questions.
I had an 800 changer. In fact what I had was a complete rear neck of a 2000 with everything and I sold it like an idiot. I do have a 2000 which is a great axe, as good as any-just heavier than anything I've owned!
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 24 Dec 2010 11:15 pm
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I loaded a very early Fender 400 with ten pedals and two knee levers. The knee levers raising the Es (Ds, actually) were made from a JCH knee lever, a square cross shaft and brackets that were either Zum or JCH, I cannot remember what bellcranks I used, and the rods were 3/32 EMCI pull rods that were threaded at the end. To the threaded end I screwed on the Fender endplate tuning brass tube/steel loops because they had the same threads. To keep the rods from falling off the fingers when the knee levers were collapsed, or when the C pedal raised the finger higher to F# and the F rod would be slack, I snugged up the loop around the finger with heat shrink tubing.
I apologize but I cannot get other photos to load. They are from the same camera on the same day, in the same folder on the same computer.
Chris Lucker
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2010 8:51 am
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This is what I came up with after looking at Fenders, ZBs and Klines, and some photos of other modified Fenders. I'm not an engineer or a technical illustrator so cut me some slack.  Without trying it yet I'm guessing I will have the option of balancing pulls and adjusting pedal feel. It will also elimenate any "spongy" feel in the pedals. Remember those pullers can turn in any direction.
You could probably find the parts needed at your local hardware store. Let me know what you think, good and bad!
An option to diagram 2 would be to attach a pulley with hoops to the rod but you won't have the option of balancing the pull.
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Ryan Barwin
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 25 Dec 2010 11:03 am
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Dave, I tried something similar for a knee lever reversing mechanism on my 400, and it didn't work very well. The "L" pieces would scrape against the body if they were too close, and when I put some washers in between, it wasn't solid enough and the screws started pulling out...the wood is too soft.
It could be done if the screws were threaded into pieces of aluminum, or possibly harder wood. I never got around to doing that yet.
I'm sure it can be done...it is a good design.
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www.pedalsteel.ca |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 25 Dec 2010 11:11 am
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Yes I wondered about that. Maybe a metal plate attached to the frame would help.
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Fred Shannon
From:
Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 27 Dec 2010 12:48 pm
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Hey, some good info here. I would be interested in doing a 10 string. If anyone has an old 800 or 2000 changer laying around (reasonable) I would like to talk. fjshannon1@suddenlink.net
phred
_________________
There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!
Think about it!! |
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