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Topic: Why Do We Need A Neck Selector Switch ? |
Larry Johnson
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2010 2:50 pm |
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| I keep my switch set on both E9 and C6. Do any of you set yours different and why? Larry |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2010 2:54 pm
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| The steel company I worked for had the regular three way switch. If you put it in the "both" position, the pickups thinned out and sounded more West Coast Fendery. So you actually could get two sounds out of each neck. See if your guitar does that. |
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Bryan Daste
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2010 5:44 pm
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| I always keep the switch on whichever neck I'm currently using to stop sympathetic vibrations from one neck being amplified by the other neck's pickup. |
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Stan Schober
From:
Cahokia, Illinois, USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2010 5:44 pm
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| John Billings wrote: |
| The steel company I worked for had the regular three way switch. If you put it in the "both" position, the pickups thinned out and sounded more West Coast Fendery. So you actually could get two sounds out of each neck. See if your guitar does that. |
That most certainly is the case with my ShoBud Pro.
_________________
Emmons S-8 P/P,DeArmond 40. Slowly drifting back towards sanity. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 22 Dec 2010 5:58 pm
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When you have the selector switch on both necks it can drop the overall output and change the tone of whatever neck you are playing. That's reason enough for a selector switch. Also when you play the C6 the strings on the E neck will pick up sympathetic vibrations and resonate. This is a very interesting sound but not applicable to most musical situations. To create a humbucker out of both necks you can switch the polarity of one therefore have a humbucker when both single coil pickups are on. It doesn't sound the same as when you select one neck at a time. Its useful in a pinch though. If you want to try it just switch the hot and ground wires around on one of the pickups where it connects to the switch.
_________________
Bob |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2010 9:27 pm
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Bob, I must admit that I did not know that or at least have never thought of it. I think it might be a good idea to put a switch on my favorite push pull with stock single coils that would reverse polarity on a pickup and allow me to use the guitar in buildings that have caused too much hum in the past. One building in particular. Food for thought. Thanks!
Jerry |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2010 10:34 pm
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What Bob said- with both necks on, your amp "sees" the combined impedance and load, not always as good a sound as one pickup at a time. Along with the sympathetic resonance thing.
I'm currently reworking an EMCI missing the selector switch (anybody got a spare or know where you can dig those up? They look pretty proprietary...)
So, I'm thinking of routing a hole and dropping in an Emmons switch plate. I always liked the tone switch option on Emmons guitars.
Hmmm... anybody got one of those? |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 22 Dec 2010 10:58 pm
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| John Billings wrote: |
| The steel company I worked for had the regular three way switch. If you put it in the "both" position, the pickups thinned out and sounded more West Coast Fendery. So you actually could get two sounds out of each neck. See if your guitar does that. |
I like to make use of that when using my double-neck steels. The effect is similar to that of a coil tap. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 2:13 am
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I only keep it on the neck I am using. The reason is if I am playing the E9th neck, I don't want the chance of any noise coming from the C6th neck if I rub my arms on it while playing. Actually it is because I don't want 2 necks worth of noise coming out of my amp when I pass out and my head crashes into the guitar  .
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 6:34 am
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But why have a 3-way? One neck or the other makes the most sense unless it's a remnant of the days when players swiched necks in the middle of songs.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer 1963 Gibson Falcon |
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Larry Johnson
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 7:10 am Why Do WE Need A Neck Selector Switch
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John,Yes my Sho Bud Pro 2 does exactly the same thing in the center position. ( both necks on)
Mark, It takes a special switch.It is a double pull double throw, on, both, on, 3 position switch.I believe that is right. John Morehead and Jeff Surrat have the old, open face sho bud switches. They are 3 inches long.
The closed face switches are shorter, both have 1/2 inch dia. mounting holes.
I would suggest a steel manufacturer to get the closed face switches from. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 8:01 am
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| Rick Abbott wrote: |
| But why have a 3-way? One neck or the other makes the most sense unless it's a remnant of the days when players swiched necks in the middle of songs. |
(see the above posts)
Besides what you mentioned (which would include novelties like Doug Jernigan playing both necks at once), consider
1. Sometimes we like to be able to switch to an alternative sound, which is thinner with both pickups on
2. A more important reason IMO: if you have 2 single coil pickups, and you find yourself in an place with bad 60-cycle hum, turn on both pickups for hum cancellation. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 8:14 am
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| Earnest Bovine wrote: |
| Rick Abbott wrote: |
| But why have a 3-way? One neck or the other makes the most sense unless it's a remnant of the days when players swiched necks in the middle of songs. |
(see the above posts)
Besides what you mentioned (which would include novelties like Doug Jernigan playing both necks at once), consider
1. Sometimes we like to be able to switch to an alternative sound, which is thinner with both pickups on
2. A more important reason IMO: if you have 2 single coil pickups, and you find yourself in an place with bad 60-cycle hum, turn on both pickups for hum cancellation. |
Interesting!......How does that work?
I would've thought that the individual pickups would have to be out of phase w/ each another for "common rejection" of the 60 cycle hum to occur. |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 8:48 am
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So the guitar builders who put the 3-way switch in actually did it with the intention of an alternate tone? I hate to seem dumb about it all, it just seems that coil-taps were for the altenate tone. The hum rejection deal sounds like a great idea!! Has anyone put a dummy coil in a circuit for that reason? I think I've heard of that.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer 1963 Gibson Falcon |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 9:00 am
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| Tony Glassman wrote: |
I would've thought that the individual pickups would have to be out of phase w/ each another for "common rejection" of the 60 cycle hum to occur. |
Yes, that's why pickups on double neck guitars are normally installed in opposite polarity. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 9:29 am
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| Rick Abbott wrote: |
| So the guitar builders who put the 3-way switch in actually did it with the intention of an alternate tone? |
My guess is that the builders' intention was for the player to be able to move from one neck to the other mid-song without having to use the switch (I don't quite see why that should be considered an obsolete idea), but the tone effect is a serendipitous "side effect." |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 10:34 am
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| that's interesting. this is the first time in my life i ever heard that the switch is 'intentionally' designed to alter tone and cancel hum. you'd think i'd have heard that concept after 40 yrs or so of constant steel guitar scrutinization. especially with the years of whining i've heard about too much hum and what to do about it by many players. i guess just certain 'special people' are privy to this information. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 11:45 am
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| On my Sho-Bud Super Pro and my pre-RP Mullen, both with their stock single-coil pickups and wiring, the both-necks switch position is not hum-canceling. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 12:28 pm
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| Brint Hannay wrote: |
| On my Sho-Bud Super Pro and my pre-RP Mullen, both with their stock single-coil pickups and wiring, the both-necks switch position is not hum-canceling. |
Are you sure? You might be hearing some hum canceling. Hum canceling would not be perfect, or even as good as a humbucking pickup, because the 2 coils are not as close together as in a humbucking pickup, so they pick up different signals. The different signals (different strength and very slightly different phase) would not cancel exactly, and you would hear some hum. Probably more important, the 2 pickups are not matched carefully (magnet strength and number of winding) as they would be in a humbucking pickup.
Still, when you need it, it can really help. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 12:30 pm
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| Earnest Bovine wrote: |
| Tony Glassman wrote: |
I would've thought that the individual pickups would have to be out of phase w/ each another for "common rejection" of the 60 cycle hum to occur. |
Yes, that's why pickups on double neck guitars are normally installed in opposite polarity. |
Earnie, I realize that the individual coils in a Humbucker are of opposite polarity as is the middle strat pickup (compared to the neck and bridge) to cause "common rejection" hum cancelling.
I am not aware that any builders are winding the C & E neck pickups with opposite polarities, so I don't understand how the hum cancellation would work when both pickups are engaged.  |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 12:46 pm
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| Tony Glassman wrote: |
I am not aware that any builders are winding the C & E neck pickups with opposite polarities, so I don't understand how the hum cancellation would work w/ both pickups turned on. |
All the pickups can be wound the same way. You just connect them opposite to each other.
I don't really know that all the builders do this. I just assumed it because the only double neck I ever had was that way, and I can't see any reason not to. |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 1:17 pm
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I'm gonna go try it on my old shobud, it has Wallace rebuilds of the 66 singlecoils. They're pretty quiet, but my house is pretty noisy electrically. I'll check back later with a verdict about my guitar.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer 1963 Gibson Falcon |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 1:33 pm
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I've worked on a few hundred guitars over the years, and don't recall any coming factory set up with reversed leads on either pickup, and no manufacturers suggestions in pickup instructions for trying that (steel guitar pickups, I'm talking about).
I've wired some reverse myself for students/clients worried about noise issues with single coils, but my impression is that was never an intention from the original steel builders. My guess is the switches were what was available, and they basically copied the switch wiring setups common on two pickup guitars of the day, like Teles and Les Pauls. |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 1:39 pm
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On the EMCI guitar I just got, there are two missing pushbutton pickup switches. I quote from the MCI owner's manual:
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There are two pushbutton selector switches between the necks. The right-hand switch selects the
neck: the "up" position "turns on" the E9 (or upper) neck. The "down" position selects the C6 (or
lower) neck. The lefthand switch, when in the "down" position, "turns on" both necks at the same
time. |
This makes me wonder if there was some switching mojo there to keep the impedance from causing the thinning effect we're talking about on most guitars when switched to both necks on. Perhaps series wiring to that switch? maybe an EMCI owner could chime in on that. |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2010 3:22 pm
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I do hear a difference, but the nasal tone of it wouldn't suit me for much. I'll leave it for now.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer 1963 Gibson Falcon |
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