Original Black Widow Speaker ??

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

I'm resurrecting my mid 70's Session 400 and noticed when I plugged my Emmons PP direct into it that the sound was really flat and not full. Thought it was because I'm coming from a Mesa/Mosvale 500 watt rack.

When I played low bass notes, the speaker was breaking up and rattling.

Luckily I have a spare (The one with the spider logo)

Sounds fine now but when I picked up the bad one, I heard a rattling sound. I looked inside the screen on the back and saw chunks of rusty metal moving around!

So, what the heck happened and is it fixable?

thx

bob

John Swain · From: Winchester, Va

Remove the magnet and clean all the crap out of it "carefully", reassemble and it's likely ok!JS

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Bill Moran · From: Virginia, USA

How many people have resurrected a PV amp, after playing anything else, and found it flat ?
Imagine that ?? Neutral

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Bill

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Bob, there are 3 bolts to remove the magnet. Either hex bolt head or socket head and pull the mag straight off the basket.

http://www.peavey.com/pvtv/player3.cfm?whichVideo=85

Here's a video...it's the new neo basket, but the procedure is the same.

There shouldn't be any metal in there. That black stuff you see is likely the deteriorated foam plug that's supposed to keep debris from entering the screen. Clean it all out. It'll probably be melted and stuck to the voice coil and inside the magnet gap as well. Besides the Peavey gap cleaning method, you will probably need to use a q-tip and alcohol, or acetone to clean all that sticky stuff off both. Use caution not to deform the coil.

Reassemble, and you should be good to go. Just be careful when installing the magnet so that you don't bend or injure the basket voice coil. Peavey's earlier doc. on installing the big mag, like yours, shows installing one edge at an angle making sure the coil is mating the gap, then lowering the assembly down on the basket.

Roger Dillingham · From: Kentucky, USA

Hey Bob, I like the idea someone had from a previous post on the forum concerning this issue, and they suggested going to hardware store to get (3) 1/4" bolts 4" in length (SAE) thread I believe. Cut the heads off and thread them in the holes before re-installing the magnet to use them as guides to help keep magnet from wandering when putting back into place. Hopefully, that additional bit of security would keep the edge of the voice coil from getting bent or damaged during reassembly. I tried it and seemed to work great! Good Luck, Roger Smile

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Thanks, Guys

I'll give it a go this weekend. These are my favorite Black Widows!

bob

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Hey there Bob... I just cleaned out the 1502-4 in my Nashville 400 (after 27 years). When I removed the magnet, that little foam piece was floating around the inside of the aluminum dust cap. Just turned to dust when I tried to pick it up. I lightly blew into the voice coil gap and ended up with a face full of dust, so I used some canned compressed air like you buy to blow crap out of your computer keyboard. Putting the basket back into the voice coil gap was pretty easy. Just check to make sure the voice coil looks intact and not having the appearance of rubbing the gap anywhere. After I got it back together, I lightly pushed the cone in and out to listen for any rubbing in the voice coil / gap. As far as positioning the magnet back in the same place as when you took it off, just notice the position (maybe even mark it with a pencil on the frame and magnet) of the terminals and nameplates/decals. With only 3 bolts, there isn't a whole lot of choices where to mount the magnet.

By the way, I used to have a Black Widow that had the spider web decal, and it had no bolts to remove the basket from the magnet. I was told that these are not removable and the baskets are not replaceable.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I always remove the entire speaker from the amp to perform this procedure.

A shot of one of the early spider webs [now a victim of economics and sold to KK in Ohio] All of the old spiders I've ever had or seen have the internal socket head bolts like this one, but I obviously haven't seen them all.

I still have a couple of these speakers in cabs. I like to mix one with a newer 1501 SB in a stereo rig. They are great sounding units...too bad the newer baskets won't marry with these old mags, but then they might not sound the same anyhow.

These older spider web speakers are a little bit lighter to tote too.

BTW, the position of the mag on the basket doesn't matter. In fact, sometimes rotating the clock position might be a good idea especially if you have a slightly rubbing coil.

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

That's definitely it. Just undo the (3) allen bolts and pull?

thx

bob

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Those old spider web BW's are my favorites, both in 15" and 12". Much closer to a JBL, handles power well, and just a sweet, smooth tone.

B

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Update:

Cleaned all the foam out. Looked like some had melted or burned on to the voice coil. Took some carb cleaner to remove.

Cleaned the gap, reassemble, still heard rubbing. Tried rotating the magnet but still rubbed. Took apart again and found a small piece of debris in the gap. Still had some rubbing that seemed to come an go.

Will mount in a cabinet and report back. Didn't sound too good face up sitting on to of the amp Smile

bob

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

BTW, the original logo BW that came out is an 8 ohm and the backup is a 4 Ohm. I'm sure the 8 Ohm is the original. Did PV do that by mistake? It does ring out at about 8 ohms.

bob

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I had an old 70's Session 400, and it came new with a (peavey branded) JBL 4 ohm speaker (K130, I think). Does the back panel state whether it is a 4 or an 8 ohm output?

From Peavey website / owners manual

Per their description, I don't think the BW in it was original.

Also from the manual

So assuming you are only using the internal speaker (jack 1) you should run a 4 ohm speaker. If using both outputs, I would assume the 2 speakers should be 8 ohms each.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Richard

It definitely says 4 OHM on the back of the amp. I think all LTD's and Sessions were?

Very strange.

bob

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

OK, I usually answer these when they come up but don't like going to the archives to "prove" the details.

I have a 79 Session 500. The speaker after 20 years finally gave out.

It's a BW with a curved magnet.

I tried two NEW baskets and they would NOT quit rubbing on the coils. NO "foam bits" NO "debris" NO "Warped MAgnet".

The slot in that early BW was narrower. Just by a RCH, but it was smaller. The original speaker coils were slightly more compact. The newer ones are not quite as compact or uniform.

I got Mike to "admit" that there was a change, but if Peavey ever did there might be "in stock replacement issues". I dunno. I had an "authrepair shop" put the second one in and it stil rubbed. I gave up. I put a JBL 140 in it and called it good. It's floor mounted in my basement anyhow..

I know that curved BW '79 magnet has a slot too small by a RCH for a newer basket and keep it on my refrigerator for those big notes..

There are no specs for the slot width that I could ever find, but I know they changed a "RCH"..

Just my experience.

Smile

EJL

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

But this is the same coil going back in to the same slot!

bob

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Sorry. Guilty of not reading it right.

The voice coil could be warped, or there could be a piece of crap in the slot. They ARE really hard to get clean.

I think I'd rebasket it, but I relayed the problem I had doing that to mine.

There isn't hardly any slop in the magnet from nearly snug to tight, but try twisting it a couple different ways while you start to tighten it. You could find a sweet spot.

IF you take it to a peaveyauthshop make SURE you are there when they run the square wave test. Don't let them tell you that ANY buzzing is "ok" because it's not. You should NOT be able to push the coil carefully and evenly way in and hear ANY scraping.

Like I said, mine was of the curved BW 5401 '79 vintage and there was a glitch when I tried to rebasket it with a new one a couple years ago.. so beware if you do.

Good luck.

Smile

EJL

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

I think I got it all cleaned out, no more rubbing. Mounted it in my LTD cabinet and virtually no low end or bass. Don't hear the rattling or fuzziness, just really tinny. Put an EV in same cab and Wow!

So, did the foam deteriorating and getting trapped and heated up in the gap ruin the speaker?

thx

bob

Jerry Erickson · From: Atlanta,IL 61723

Can you measure the resistance of the speaker? The voice coil might be open. If the foam deteriorated, did you clean that off of the voice coil? As Eric said, you can't get replacement baskets from Peavey for those old BW's, so you'll probably have to replace the whole speaker.

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

If I may make a suggestion.....

I used to be an authorized Peavey repair center, among many other name brands, and did many BW basket replacements....and have also saved many BW speaker owners a lot of money by cleaning their BWs.

To clean the gaps, compressed air is not enough. Here's what you need to do....

Take a thin, but stiff, piece of plastic, like lighting gel material, and cut it down to a 3" x 1/2" size. Now wrap a strip of 1/2" masking tape, sticky side out, around the plastic piece. Hold the this "tool" firmly and slide this tool into the gap and, with an up and down motion, go completely around the gap.

Take the tool out, put a fresh piece of tape on it, and and clean the gap again. I do this at least 3 or 4 times, until the tape comes out perfectly clean.

This procedure is especially necessary if you are replacing a blown basket, because tiny metal scraps can magnetically "stick" inside that gap. Compressed air will never dislodge them...you have to "grab" them with the tape.

NOW you can be assured the gap is actually clean. As mentioned in a previous post, also make sure the basket's voice coil, itself, is clean. Put the BW back together and test it. If it still has a rub, or distorts, replace the basket.

BTW...for safe reassembly with that heavy magnet structure, I used 3 wood dowels that I had shaved down to fit snugly into the basket's bolt holes. But I like the idea of using headless bolts better.....they would last longer. Those voice coils can be damaged very easily, and there's no way to repair them, except by replacement.
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Best regards,
Mike

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

If your voice coil looks burned like you said.
It could be burned.
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Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

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