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Topic: Earnest Bovine's opinion? |
John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 23 Oct 2010 9:04 am |
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| In ZK's thread you mentioned the C pedal. I was curious on your thoughts. I recently experimented (1 year) with lowering G#s-Gs on 3+6..which made more sense to me for minors, but changed back to more mainstream Emmons KLs,for lack of "extra" kls..JS |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2010 11:23 am
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I'm not sure what opinion you're asking for. I confess to exaggerating a bit when I said that the C pedal is the most useless thing ever put on a steel guitar. I do have a C pedal on a couple of steels with simple setups for playing country style.
And I always have a lever to lower G# to G. I realize that this lever produces some of the same intervals that the C pedal produces, but I don't see much relationship between the two beyond that. |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 23 Oct 2010 2:42 pm
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| Thanks Earnest..I just didn't want to hijack the other thread to find out what you meant!!JS |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2010 3:20 pm
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| C pedal always seemed to me like it was there just to play one lick. |
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Leslie Ehrlich
From:
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted 23 Oct 2010 11:20 pm
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I like the C pedal. It allows me to get minor chords on adjacent strings on the E9th neck. 
_________________
Sho-Bud Pro III + Marshall JMP 2204 half stack = good grind! |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 24 Oct 2010 2:47 am
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| John Hughey used the "C" pedal extensively in his work, which along with his masterful technique IMO helped to define his style. The solo for the song, "Look At Us" is a prime example of John's genius at utilizing that pedal. |
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Jack Stanton
From:
Somewhere in the swamps of Jersey
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Posted 24 Oct 2010 4:29 am
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Hey John!
I remember about 25 years or so ago Jeff Newman had an article in one of his newsletters declaring the c pedal worthless. In the same newsletter was an article by Paul Franklin with tab of the intro he had just done on George Straight's newest album , almost all done with the c pedal.
One never know, do one? |
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Franklin
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Posted 24 Oct 2010 5:28 am
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In music there is no singular use for a chord or a note.......What is possible with any note or chordal harmonies, with the C or any other pedal change, depends solely on the imagination of the musician, not on the limitation of the change.........
Jeff changed his mind later on and not only kept the C pedal, he started playing some of the inventive concepts Green, Hughey, White, and others were exploring with the change........The C pedal is an important way to achieve a smooth flow with the diatonic harmonies of the major scale......And that's where it starts, not ends. |
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Barry Hyman
From:
upstate New York, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2010 7:08 am
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I must admit that I've never used the C pedal for any chord other than the ii minor (F#m in open position). (And there are other minor chord voicings that I prefer because they involve lower strings as well.) But melodically I use the C pedal all the time, in all sorts of different scales and chords. Useless it is not. I particularly like raising the 4th string a whole tone -- that has a lot of value, whether or not you use it to achieve a unison with the first string.
_________________
I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com
Last edited by Barry Hyman on 25 Oct 2010 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2010 7:32 am
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| C pedal is fun, and if I were a centipede, or even a quadripede, I would put it on all my guitars. |
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Tim Heidner
From:
Groves, TX
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Posted 25 Oct 2010 10:00 am
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Hey Earnest, if you're not a centipede what's that critter in your avatar?  |
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John Groover McDuffie
From:
LA California, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2010 10:50 am
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I think one of the advantages of the C pedal is what it doesn't do - raise the 8th string.* I find it useful for getting dominant 9th and minor 9th chords with the root on the (non-raised) 8th string. (IMHO one of the shortcomings of the standard E9th tuning is the way most raises and lowers operate in both octaves, making extended chords difficult to execute.)
*Of course if you, like Dave Zirbel, don't raise the 8th string with the A pedal this aspect becomes redundant. |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 25 Oct 2010 11:58 am
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I always thought the C pedal's slot could be used for something better and have went a different way. I've always had a form of it but closer to what Ralph Mooney was doing, that is raising the 4th string without the 5th string going along with it as I like the sound of it better for "Mooney" things. On my old ShoBud 12 stringer I had it on a verticle knee lever but when I went to my S-12 BMI, I opted for the 4th string raise to be on pedal 8 which I use with my right foot. I also tune my 2nd string to C# so along with my third string raised to A and the open 1st and 2nd strings, I have basically the same notes or chords that you'd get with a C pedal. I know it doesn't have the "movement" but there's another way to get that........
It's by using your A pedal and your E lever! Example: In the open tuning, instead of using the C pedal for a II minor, go to fret five with your E's lowered. Then use your A pedal and let off the E knee lever at the same time and you'll get the same move!
I also lower string 3 to G on pedal one. With that I can do the C pedal move where you'd go from the I to the II minor to the III minor. All you have to do is just play strings 3, 4 & 5... move to the 2nd fret and engage the lever lowering the 3rd string a half while enroute.... then go to the 4th fret with the lever still engaged and you've accomplished the same thing as what you'd have had with the C pedal.....JH in Va.
_________________
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 25 Oct 2010 3:06 pm
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When the unraised 8th string is the root, the *C* pedal... I personally dislike *letter* names for the pedals/levers... creates a 6/9 chord, very useful in pop music.
But it's a lousy voicing for the chord.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?
Last edited by Herb Steiner on 25 Oct 2010 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John Groover McDuffie
From:
LA California, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2010 3:26 pm
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| I can deal with letter names for the 3 main E9 pedals but I get really confused by the letter names for the Knee Levers! |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2010 4:30 pm
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| John Groover McDuffie wrote: |
| I can deal with letter names for the 3 main E9 pedals but I get really confused by the letter names for the Knee Levers! |
The A pedal pulls the B string
The B pedal pulls to A
You never C anybody use the other one. |
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Posted 26 Oct 2010 9:05 am
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I am intrigued by Zane King's implementation of the 4th string E to F# change. He combines it with the 6th string G# to A, and places it next to the B to C# pedal. I think I'll put that on my "0" pedal. Lower B to A with pedal 4, lower G# to F# with pedal 5. Use both for the "Franklin."
That would give me lots of options for movement. For me, the C pedal is a key element in the flowing nature of the Nashville tuning. |
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John Groover McDuffie
From:
LA California, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2010 9:57 am
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| regarding Zane King's changes described above, does he do that in lieu of the or in addition to a standard "B" pedal? (If you are unclear about what the standard B pedal is see two posts up) |
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2010 7:35 pm
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| Quote: |
The A pedal pulls the B string
The B pedal pulls to A
You never C anybody use the other one. |
Priceless.
As are some of the sweet C pedal moves out there- what Paul said. |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 28 Oct 2010 6:09 am
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On my 12 string setup I communicate my "C" pedal as follows....
If we assume that Emmons' defines the official ABC then here is how mine is laid out...
Pedal #2 - B
Pedal #3 - A
Pedal #4 - C
Most "Day" and "Hughey" mirrored setups use the C pedal in position #1 - thus C, B, A - thus they just flipped the A,C positions from Emmons. So in the Day setup pedals C/B are combo and of course the Emmons' setup B/C are combo. Exactly the same thing.
In my setup by the definitions above A/C are combos. Which means my "C" pedal if you want to call it that pulls the top "E" string to F# like most people on the planet...but where it is different...I pull all of my G# (3 of them) to A. Indeed this is a different use of the "C" pedal. HOWEVER, I have never thought of it as a C pedal. It is just my 4th pedal. I've trained my left foot pretty well.
All of that said, my brain springs a leak when I think about all of this "A/B/C" pedal definitions. Just imagine if I took a new student and said...okay lesson #1 we are going to just look at the footwork today.....first of all you see a steel guitar has pedals like a bicycle. Go ahead...push one of them. Isn't that fun? Okay now here is what call them....This pedal is called the A pedal...it's position #3....now if we have an A pedal then we must have a B pedal right? Okay it's in position #2...are you still with me? Where you going? Get back here...this is simple I promise. What do you mean I don't know my ABCs. I'm telling you to get back here and sit down - I've told you once that we steel guitarist are brilliant people...here let me prove it.
Just having fun folks! I need a break from reality once in a while.
ZK
_________________
Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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