| Author |
Topic: Long scale steels and string gauges |
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 29 Sep 2010 6:41 pm |
|
After playing my Clinesmith for a few years now, I'd become accustomed to the sound and feel (action) of the guitar with standard C6 and A6 gauges of SIT strings. However, lately I've been fooling around a bit with playing chord solos and basically grabbing different guitars. First, it was my short scale Electar Model M, then my Fender Custom T-8 (which has great action) and I got to thinking that I wanted the same feel for my longer scale Clinesmith.
I'd always been accustomed to tighter action from playing Tricone with some pretty heavy strings, so the tautness was something desirable for me. However, in the time that I've become focused on electric playing, my technique has evolved to the point where I am using a lighter touch and maybe even getting a bigger sound. This also goes back to something Jim Campilongo said about using the light gauge strings that he does: he believes he gets a fatter sound out of his .009-.042 set than he did with .010s and higher. It is also slighhtly more difficult to accurate picking with lighter strings, as there is a smaller surface to strike.
Anyway, I spent the day pondering string gauges and pulled out what I needed from my stock and changed the strings. I have to say, at first blush I'm pleased with the feel and sound. I think that the unwound G (.022) is still a little strange for me, but I will give it a week or two before I put in the final verdict. I would like to approach someone about making a set for longer scale guitars. If that's not feasible, then maybe I'll just compile my own sets and put them out there. Here's what I've come up with at this time for a C6/A7 tuned 8 string lap steel:
.015 .017 .020 .022P .030 .034 .040 .052
I may try a .014 for E and a .022W for G.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
 |
Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 29 Sep 2010 7:46 pm
|
|
I prefer the tone and feel of a bit lighter gauge on a longer scale. Or to say, a gauge that's in the sweet spot for the scale and tuning. It seems to me that when you get on the higher end of the tension / the strings range, that the tone can lose some of its rich character.
_________________
Some misc pics of my hand crafted steels
Follow me on Facebook here |
|
|
|
Mark Lavelle
From:
San Mateo, CA
|
Posted 29 Sep 2010 7:56 pm
|
|
1) That's low C6, right?
2) What's the scale length on the Clinesmith?
Maybe it's the lifetime of Telecaster playing, but I'm a big fan of the heavier gauges...
_________________
http://www.harmonicappliances.com/ |
|
|
|
Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
|
Posted 29 Sep 2010 8:15 pm
|
|
| Sounds interesting Mike. I've got one lap steel that's got some slightly heavier strings on it and I really like the feel and tone. |
|
|
|
Bob Snelgrove
From:
san jose, ca
|
Posted 30 Sep 2010 6:52 am
|
|
| Andy Sandoval wrote: |
| Sounds interesting Mike. I've got one lap steel that's got some slightly heavier strings on it and I really like the feel and tone. |
I've got E maj ( 15-54) gauge on my short scale Magnatone tuned to C6 and I love the taught feel and tone.
bob |
|
|
|
Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
|
Posted 30 Sep 2010 7:59 am
|
|
| Mike, John Ely has me using a .014 on the first string E and a .021P on the third string A on the A6 neck on my Clinesmith D8. The fifth string E is the same as yours, .030W, and I don't think there are any other strings that match between A6 and C6/A7. |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 30 Sep 2010 8:29 am
|
|
Lynn, strings 1, 3, 5, 6 and 7 match between those 2 tunings.
I'm pretty happy with the .020 for string 3(A). I think the .015 still works for me, but I may go with .014 as a test. I'm liking a little bit of flexibility in the strings, just in case I want to bend. The sound is a little sweeter to my ears, too.
I would love to see a string company step up and offer sets for long scale guitars, but I'm afraid the number of buyers would be too small. As it is, I'm having trouble piecing together semi-flat sets in the gauges I want. 
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
|
Posted 30 Sep 2010 8:37 am plain 22s
|
|
Mike, don't you find the .022p a bit too "clanky"?
I'd probably try a .022w there or the .021p for that string. (it might be a pickup sensitivity thing, too).
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 30 Sep 2010 8:58 am Re: plain 22s
|
|
| Tom Wolverton wrote: |
Mike, don't you find the .022p a bit too "clanky"?
I'd probably try a .022w there or the .021p for that string. (it might be a pickup sensitivity thing, too). |
There was a little of that at first, but it's become manageable and even unnoticeable. The verdict is still out on it. One thing I know is I may have to give up using the semi-flats on this guitar.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
|
Posted 30 Sep 2010 9:30 am
|
|
| Mike Neer wrote: |
| Lynn, strings 1, 3, 5, 6 and 7 match between those 2 tunings. |
Going string to string I got:
C6/A7: E C A G E C C# A
A6: E C# A F# E C# A F#
My gauges for string 6 C# (.036W) and string 7 A (.042W) are much lighter than your gauges. |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 30 Sep 2010 9:39 am
|
|
My tuning is: E C A G E C# A G(I change this often). So you can see it's kind of close.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Morgan Scoggins
From:
Georgia, USA
|
Posted 1 Oct 2010 2:59 am
|
|
What Tom said about the .22 third string. I had one on my Remington and always had a "clanky" sound when playing on the 1st fret. I changed to a .20 and the problem was gone
_________________
"Shoot low boys, the're ridin' Shetlands" |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 1 Oct 2010 3:05 pm
|
|
Morgan, I'm using a .020 for the 3rd string and a .022P for the 4th (G). Some of that clanky sound was evident at first, but I have not heard it since.
Here are the reasons that I am preferring the plain 4th string at the moment: It is louder and has more sustain than a .024W and it sounds more balanced with the 3rd string. Those are big plusses right there.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Mark Roeder
From:
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
|
Posted 4 Oct 2010 6:37 am
|
|
One thing I like about that setup is 4 plain strings instead of only three. I use it in A6. It does have some tension issues for me, especially the F#, but I may just have to play it for awhile.
_________________
www.deluxe34.com lap steel stands, Clinesmith, Gibson Console Grande, Northwesterns, The Best Westerns
https://www.facebook.com/TheBestWesterns |
|
|
|
Mark Roeder
From:
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
|
Posted 5 Oct 2010 8:02 am
|
|
This topic gets me wondering about the tension sweet spot. Obviously you can only go so light then you get a rubber band feel. On the other hand, as you get tighter, does that have a negative effect on tone and touch as well?
Bob Hoffnar once told me he liked a certain amount of pounds of tension in his strings. I never asked him what device he gauged the tension with. He is the first person I have heard talk in terms of poundage in the tension. Interesting
_________________
www.deluxe34.com lap steel stands, Clinesmith, Gibson Console Grande, Northwesterns, The Best Westerns
https://www.facebook.com/TheBestWesterns |
|
|
|
Bob Snelgrove
From:
san jose, ca
|
Posted 5 Oct 2010 8:23 am
|
|
| Mark Roeder wrote: |
This topic gets me wondering about the tension sweet spot. Obviously you can only go so light then you get a rubber band feel. On the other hand, as you get tighter, does that have a negative effect on tone and touch as well?
Bob Hoffnar once told me he liked a certain amount of pounds of tension in his strings. I never asked him what device he gauged the tension with. He is the first person I have heard talk in terms of poundage in the tension. Interesting |
I'd like to know, too.
Has anyone else tried Emaj gauge tuned to C6 on a 22 1/2 scale?
bob |
|
|
|
Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
|
Posted 5 Oct 2010 9:05 am
|
|
| Quote: |
| Has anyone else tried Emaj gauge tuned to C6 on a 22 1/2 scale? |
Do you mean tuning to C6th tuning using strings gauged for open E tuning? I'm unclear about your question.
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
|
|
|
Bob Snelgrove
From:
san jose, ca
|
Posted 5 Oct 2010 12:39 pm
|
|
| Brad Bechtel wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Has anyone else tried Emaj gauge tuned to C6 on a 22 1/2 scale? |
Do you mean tuning to C6th tuning using strings gauged for open E tuning? I'm unclear about your question. |
Yes
bob |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 5 Oct 2010 1:02 pm
|
|
That would not work well, Bob. Too much tension--you'd never make it past string 3.
The gauges I listen above are working out perfectly, although if I had to make one change, I would try a .028 for the 5th string E. .030 is still fine, though.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 5 Oct 2010 1:06 pm
|
|
| Mark Roeder wrote: |
This topic gets me wondering about the tension sweet spot. Obviously you can only go so light then you get a rubber band feel. On the other hand, as you get tighter, does that have a negative effect on tone and touch as well?
Bob Hoffnar once told me he liked a certain amount of pounds of tension in his strings. I never asked him what device he gauged the tension with. He is the first person I have heard talk in terms of poundage in the tension. Interesting |
Mark, that is what this whole thread is about. I believe I've found the sweet spot. I also know that too much tension has a negative effect on the tone, although I was never unhappy with my tone--it's just better now. The strings are able to vibrate a bit more now and the sustain is definitely longer. The tone may be a little thicker, too.
I want to create a set for long scale guitars in the hopes that some string company would package them. It would make life a lot easier for me and others. I would also submit for other tunings, as well.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Bob Snelgrove
From:
san jose, ca
|
Posted 5 Oct 2010 1:47 pm
|
|
| Mike Neer wrote: |
That would not work well, Bob. Too much tension--you'd never make it past string 3.
The gauges I listen above are working out perfectly, although if I had to make one change, I would try a .028 for the 5th string E. .030 is still fine, though. |
Mike,
It is working. I have them tuned to pitch (C6) Magnatone 6 string 22.5 scale.
I like it!
bob |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 5 Oct 2010 2:33 pm
|
|
Bob, what are the string gauges?
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
Bob Snelgrove
From:
san jose, ca
|
Posted 5 Oct 2010 4:22 pm
|
|
| Mike Neer wrote: |
| Bob, what are the string gauges? |
Roughly .015, .018, .024W .034, .040, .054
bob |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
Posted 5 Oct 2010 5:01 pm
|
|
Those are too heavy for C6 tuning. That is one way to mess up your tuners, as well.
Anyway, this thread is about long scale guitars and the fact that string sets made for short scale guitars may be hurting the tone and feel of the longer scale instruments.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
|
|
|
basilh
From:
United Kingdom
|
|
|
|
