bar/steel sliding

Paul Higgins · From: United Kingdom

Hello everyone
I hope you can help out here!
I watched an instructional vid the real begining was how to hold the bar, and how to pick the bar up and move it..

I have been watching a lot of close up teaching and performers and they dont seem to pick the bar up,

it would seem as the bar is slid everywhere....

I have a problem with strength in my let thumb through surgery has kind a left it week, so when I was trying "lap"
I bought a very light bar and also one of the GS bars from Shubb,
But now with the pedal even as a complete novice I find the substain very poor with the light bar,
the GS bar dosent help with the virbro (spelling )
so now back to the heavy bar hoping I can build enough strength in it to cope...
Going back to the sliding Even on Jeff's Newan vid's he seems to slide instead of picking bar up...
Im thinking that that might be the differance between the lap and the pedal

Or am I off the right tarck (again )

On the good side I am pleased with my picking and palm blocking, it comming nicely now
Also I am going to a Meeting this Sunday so will prob learn some more, Its a bit of a drive about 4hr but should be worth it!
Thanks again for all your help
Regards Paul

Paul Crawford · From: Orlando, Fl

Hi Paul: It seems you're holding yourself back to keep from forming bad habits for some advanced techniques. On either lap or pedal steel, you generally always slide between positions. The only problem with that general rule is that there are some nice tunes and licks that violate that rule. Hammering on and pulling off notes is a very common occurarnce on Dobro and therefore they use a different shaped bar that allows them to easily grasp the bar and move it off the strings. On pedal or lap steel, you generally keep the bar in contact with the strings moving it both down the length and across the strings.

If you start using bar slants a lot, you'll find that the thumb shouldn't just be welded to the right side of the bar but is often used to pivot the bar end using the index finger as the fulcrum and grip on the bar. Aiming towards that technique, I'd suggest you start holding the upper portion of the bar between your index and middle fingers resting your thumb a little lower on the bar. This should relieve pressure on your thumb, set you up for eventual bar slants, and ease you into gently rolling the bar across the strings for a nice vibrato effect. After you become comfortable moving the bar and keeping it straight across the strings, then you can worry about adding the skill of bar hammers and pulls.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

An often overlooked skill is 'tracking' the bar with the left hand to automatically cover the highest string with the nose of the bar. That requires a back and forth movement of the bar to CONSTANTLY track the highest picked note. BEHIND the bar you extend your middle finger to block the highest note if you move to a lower string. It's FREE and it's AUTOMATIC if you develop this technique.

If you're playing single strings, lift the back end of the bar slightly to improve both the tone and attack of the note.

In that single string passage, if you play, for example, strings 3, then 1, then 4.
*Play 3 by itself, WITH THE NOSE OF THE BAR and the bar lifted slightly from the blunt end.
* then play 1. If you have the bar tipped downward enough THE 3RD STRING WILL BE BLOCKED by the fingers of your bar hand
* slide the bar back so that the nose is over 4. All higher strings are blocked by the middle finger of your bar hand. No need for a pick or palm to block.

If you're playing a chord (e.g., 3,4,5 on E9), the bar should NOT be covering the first and second strings.

If you're playing 8,6,5 the nose of the bar should be over the 5th string. Believe me, it will sound better and will eliminate any extraneous notes coming from the first 4 strings.

This is a technique that is not talked about nearly as much as pick and palm blocking -- BUT -- it can eliminate a lot of unnecessary motion when you can block with EITHER HAND, especially on fast single string playing. I've watched a lot of the best players in the world. THEY ALL USE THIS TECHNIQUE. The bar is constantly moving to avoid covering unneeded strings and the extended finger past the end of the bar is used for blocking.

For what it's worth . . . YES you should be able to pick up the bar -- BUT -- not as a primary blocking technique. That's where problems will arise. You can use picks, palm, bar hand blocking, or whatever technique you develop that works, but blocking by lifting the bar off the string is a bad idea.
_________________
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My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12

Elton Smith · From: Texas, USA

Larry thats some very good info.Thanks,Something I do for open chords is slide the bar over the roller nut instead of picking the bar up.
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Alain-Yves Pigeon · From: Quebec, Canada

Paul, you could always try to use a Shubb Stevens bar model SP2, it's got sort of a curly front part (nose) that help playing it on a pedal steel guitar although it was intended for a Dobro. I think that Don Helms used a bar like this one. I've tried it and it was working fine on a pedal steel guitar.

Hope this can help you.

Best,

ayp
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Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Paul, my friend, I have to repeat what I suggested earlier: You must find yourself a teacher to show you the basics. Do not study all alone and acquire a whole bunch of bad habits.

Larry's advice to you was right on. Print it and hang it in front of your steel. Learn it off by heart.

You are correct in your observations that the bar does hardly get lifted, but slides instead. You need both hands to work together here:
When you slide the bar, you will hear a whole bunch of nasty notes that don't belong unless you use your right hand to deaden the strings as you slide up or down. Unwanted slide sounds must be blocked with your right hand.

You have a good time at the steel meet. Ask questions. watch closely how the others do it.
If you see Basil there, ask him if he got my email Smile

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Paul Higgins · From: United Kingdom

Hi and My thanks to thoes who have replied....
Now that is some info and explanation
kinda makes me feel a bit better...Thanks
I have noticed with players that the nose follow's the highest string, and will make sure that I remember this as Bent said I will print it out and hang it up..up to now as I havent been doing a lot of changing strings, for the blocking Ive only been useing a set of three at a time.....I WILL REMEMBER
I think I have one of thoes bars you say about I have tried it,and it dose help,
Paul I will try your technick (spelling )it showes this on Jeff Newman one but is easier said than done although I am practicing....

Bent I will tell him if I see him...
Yes I intend to take some leasons, but I fairly certain that no bad habbits yet ( havent done anything yet that's why ) Following Jeff Newman I am happy that I am on the right track..(havent got very far).but now I am happy now with my right hand.its time to move on a bit..

I need more practice as some times the timing is out a touch..I keep getting that cristel sound like the harmonics...sound...
I have tried a few simple song's the hardest things I am finding now is where the strings are
going from one string to an other IE 6and 8 then going to 4and 6 things like that..but Im sure it will come
I thank you all once again for such comperhencive Advice which I will happy to follow
David Hartly said he will show me a few things. at the meet on Sunday, My wife say's knowing the way I am I will prob forget by the time I get home...
Ill let you know how it went
regards Paul (uk)

Rick Winfield · From: Pickin' beneath the Palmettos

I have found that the left hand thumb is helpful in blocking, while dragging the bar from fret to fret.
i.e. picking strings 8,6,5 at fret 8, let your left thumb cover strings 10 and 9, while sliding back, or foward, to avoid extraneous bar chatter.
Rick

Paul Higgins · From: United Kingdom

Hi Rick
Thats an other useful tip to remember
Thank you ( its not a lot of use for anything else )
quote "I have found that the left hand thumb is helpful in blocking, while dragging the bar from fret to fret.
I have been trying to pick it up...
Thanks again Regards Paul

Paul Higgins · From: United Kingdom

Hello All
ome good news for a change.....
Bent sent me a tutorial link and advised to watch right hand
this did,following the vid (which is an intro) as I watch I could see what Larry was saying about the bar tracking the string you are playing keeping in mind the tracking advice,

The vid goes ( 45 fret 3 and 4 then 5 then staying on 5 pluck string 1 and then back to 5 and 6...

Then it all came together...Ureka...

4 and 5 blocked then the nose of the bar up to string 1, then pulling the bar back so the nose is over 5 and 6 the middle finger stopping string 1..

Then I noticed Ive been holding the bar all wrong, I had it sticking out to far trying to hold the end of it,
I also noticed I could now in this position could lift the bar off the strings....
So all the bits of advice came together...it is only a simple intro but its a start...

seems a bit silly explaining it the way I have but that is how it happened.....I watched some video and they kinda said when it dose click you will ask yourself why I couldent do it yesterday.....So we are on the way now....

Thank you all once again Regards Paul(uk)

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

WAY TO GO, PAUL!!!

It's amazing how easy technique can become once it becomes second nature. You can bet that no accomplished player is consciously thinking about where the nose of the bar is while playing on the bandstand. A connection between your pick striking a particular string and your bar hand will form if you make yourself 'track' your top note with the bar for a while.

Congratulations on your accomplishment -- keep at it.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Paul Higgins · From: United Kingdom

HI
I second that Bent a Big thanks to David Anderson
Regards Paul
I wont get much sleep now I started

Bill OConnor · From: Castle Rock, Washington, USA * R.I.P.

send me your address if you either have a hole in the end of your bar or it is threaded i will send you a unit that slides over your first finger you can get by with out your thumb The BJ Bars are thread or at least the older ones are

Paul Higgins · From: United Kingdom

Hello Bill
Thank you so much for your offer, I sent email with my address in it...

My Bj bar has a threaded end, ( I dident know untill you said I looked under the sticker )

What is the thread normaly used for..or should I say
why do they have a threaded end ?
Thank you once again
Regards Paul[/u]

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