Pro’s and con’s of a graphic equalizer

Bas Kapitein · From: Holland

Tone is a big thing among steel players. Why than is there not a wide use of equalizers in 19 inch racks. I don’t mean the cheap stompboxes, but the real thing. There is a lot of money spent on reverbs, but first you have to shape your tone!
I thought of this while reading Bob Hoffnar’s topic on EQ settings, but I think this subject is worth it’s own tread.

Bas

mtulbert · From: Plano, Texas 75023

Bas,

I believe that some of the guys who have a rack setup use a graphic equalizer. I have a rack setup but use a Crown amp with the capability to set up 10 different EQ's that seem to take care of most situations and to be honest with you I normally only use one or two of them.

The guys that use amps would have more difficulty wiring in an Equalizer than what it worth. Also, most EQ's accept line level input only where the pedals will accept signal straight from the guitar.

Regards,
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Infinity D-10 Justice SD-10 Judge Revelation Octal Preamp, Fractal AXE III, Fender FRFR 12

Bill Moran · From: Virginia, USA

I'm going to watch this thread. I never liked a outboard EQ.
I'm sure I will learn something. Smile

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Bill

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

IMHO, if you need an equalizer to get your sound, you should look for a different amp.

Equalization (parametric or graphic) is a tool to fix problems. Why not just find an amp that sounds good?

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I'm with Dan. Putting extra crap in the signal path to fix your tone is a bad idea. A tone problem is usually a bad amp or bad technique. Using an equalizer won't fix it, not really.
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Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

Ditto to b0b and Dan. The best sounding amps (in my humble experience) have the least amount of knobs. My ShoBud Christmas Tree has treble, bass, reverb and sounds awesome (again in my humble opinion). A good speaker helps too.

What really helped me become aware of the less is more thing with gadgets was an episode of Austin City Limits where the artist had two guitarists in the band. One looked like a GIT grad with an effects rack as big as a refrigerator. He played a frankenstrat with lots of shiny parts. No tone was coming from that rig but he had cool hair. The other guy was playing a Fender tele and the chord came out of his guitar and into a little tweed deluxe and man, tone to the bone. I thought that was so cool and realized too many circuits in the signal path will suck the tone out of your rig. My drive pedal only gets used when I can't let the amp do the work. I use a Holy Grail Reverb when my reverb breaks or use an old amp with out springs. I have a Wah Wah that I found at a yard sale but I haven't used it yet! Very Happy

I get compliments on my tone. (at least no one complains about it to me! Oh Well

)
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Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Alexa Gomez · From: San Francisco

This may seem weird but, depending on where I pick, the tone goes super high/percussive near the bridge, and bassy/mellow nearer the neck. Just something to think about.
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mtulbert · From: Plano, Texas 75023

Guys,

IMHO I have to disagree with Bob and Dan on this. I feel that the graphic EQ is only a tool to improve on the sound. If the tone is bad to start out with, no processing will fix it. That I totally agree with. But in my experience, different rooms, weather conditions can effect the sound of your guitar and the EQ is a good way to tweak it.

With me, I use the EQ about 20% of the time and with the way that it is integrated into the Crown Amp, I don't believe that I have any loss of quality.

Just my thought.

Mark

Thomas Ludwig · From: Augsburg, Germany

I have my MXR 6-band EQ in my case. I never put it in the signal chain without need, but sometimes the room accoustic is so bad then the EQ really helps.

Steve Becker · From: Daytona Beach FL

I play guitar and steel out of the same rig, and although I've never used a rack mounted EQ, I almost always need to use my stomp box EQ, mostly to sweep out the mids and cut some highs in order for my steel to sound good. It doesn't seem to interefere with my signal as far as I can tell...Sure, there are always gonna be the purists who tell you "you shouldn't have to rely on that crap to get your sound", but for me, it's whatever floats yer boat.

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

That's true. Using outboard gear doesn't mean it will sound bad, and yes, whatever floats yer boat. Probably wasn't even fair for me to comment since I don't really use the stuff. I like having less knobs to turn so I like to get my tone directly from the amp ( and less stuff to plug in and carry around) Smile

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Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

When I was a beginner, I used a graphic EQ with a Sho-Bud 6139 steel and a Fender Pro Reverb amp. I couldn't get the sound I wanted without it. It helped a bit, but I can't imagine doing that today. The problem was my hands, not the guitar or amp.

Beyond tweaking the tone controls on my amp, I haven't felt a need for EQ on the steel in many, many years. I'm sure that if I had that Sho-Bud and Fender today, I would be thrilled with the tone.

Sometimes I use outboard effects and sometimes I don't, but outboard EQ is one that doesn't interest me at all.
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Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

Paul Crawford · From: Orlando, Fl

I'm in a different camp all together. I regularly use the 10 channel equalizer in my effects, not to change my tone, but even it. By slightly emphasizing the different frequency ranges, I get a more even response across the entire range from each string. I think of it as a compensator for my pick up. It doesn't take much but it does make a difference to my ear.

I do need to have a seperate setting for each pick up and adjust the ranges dry with no other effects. But once I do get a nice, even blending between strings then I feel I get a better mix regardless of what other effect or amp I choose to use.

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

There are good ones and bad ones... an unmodified Boss GE-7 or a cheap rack unit will give you the opinion that graphic EQ's are noisy, sterile and transistorized, but there are a few mod guys who upgrade them. I always carry an old DOD FX-40 or FX40-B, they already have the good op-amps and sound clean and musical. I mean, I play bass, steel, guitar and slide... and I simply can't physically deal with carrying the "perfect amp" for each. Hopefully, I don't need an EQ, but I use it 30% to 40% of the time.

Let's be frank - the soundboard is solid-state, your amp controls are solid state, even the pickup on a guitar is "solid-state", right? We'd all love to have thousands of dollars worth of high-end tube gear and a roadie to tote it, but in the meantime, I do whatever I can to sound best.

Tony Middleton · From: Eastpoint, Florida, USA

I had been searching for a good home practice solution for some time that would (1) let me use headphones (so I could quit annoying my wife with occasional sounds that she describes as a "cat in a garbage can") and (2)would let me use my own guitar effect pedals of which I currently use a Boss DD-7 and a Boss RV-5 with pedal steel (depending on whether I decide to use the reverb in the amp or not). My amps are Peavey NV-1000 and Fender Twin Reverb, which don't have headphone jacks or CD input, like the NV-112.

I had tried one of the amp modeling devices, a Pocket Pod Express, but didn't like the sound of my pedal steel through the built-in effects, and could not get decent volume or tone. So my solution was to get a Mackie 402-VLZ3 mixer http://www.mackie.com/products/402vlz3/index.html (purchased for $99 from Amazon.com) which allowed me to plug the pedal steel with pedals directly into one of its two Hi-Z instrument inputs. I could adjust the preamp gain, use the two band EQ to adjust the tone, plug in headphones, and a CD player or iPod so I could play along with tracks or recorded music, and even run a cable from the main out to the powered amp side of the NV-1000 bypassing its preamp and EQ if I wanted to hear it loud though an amplified speaker (and my wife wasn't around). Anyway it sounded very good, but I thought it might sound even better if I had a better EQ. So I bought a BOSS GE-7 pedal with the Monte Allums mod and inserted it in my pedal chain (PSG -> VP -> GE-7 -> DD-7 -> RV-5 -> 402-VLZ3 mixer. This allowed me to scoop the mids like you can do on the NV-1000/NV-112 and the result was absolutely great. Running through headphones or through the NV-1000 power amp side it sounds just as good as running through the NV-1000 preamp stage in the normal way using the effects loop, and I have even more control. Plus it works great with the Fender Twin as well. So there is another good use for a graphic equalizer.

Although the 402-VLZ3 is very small, it won't fit in my EasyRider seat. So I looked for another solution as well that was more portable that I could take with me when I leave home that still met my requirements. The best solution I have found is the Boss TU-88 which is a combination Tuner/Metronome/Micro Monitor. http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=1004&ParentId=252 You can plug your guitar with pedals directly in, plug in headphones, and a CD player or iPod and it sounds very good.
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Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Although I use a TON of effects, they are used for very specific purposes (and I don't play "traditional" pedal steel). For decades there were two effects I detested - compressors and graphic EQ's.

Compressors (the stompbox kind, which are light-years away from studio compression, an essential recording element) suck the life out of pick dynamics, turn good tone into vanilla pudding, and worst of all become a crutch for players (especially beginners) who have poor right-hand control.

The prototypical Tele "pop" and level sustain is the tone that makes me run for the nearest exit.

But graphic EQ's are sinister - you don't notice them until they are turned off and a natural tone is present. The notes below are the same whether you use a 6-band pedal or 30+ band rack unit.

That's because 90% of graphic EQ users have no clue what they are for.

Many push all the sliders up a bit - instant "boost" pedal. Also tons of noise, enhancement of "wolf" tones (slightly out-of-tune notes not actually played, but appearing dues to harmonic content) and a truckload of mud.

Some build a hump, pushing mids and lowering boomy bass and hissy highs. That also cancels almost all other instruments depending on phasing (not phase pedals - waveform phase) and can make an instrument...even a loud one..."go away".

Others, having heard so much about how bad "midrange hump" is in certain pedals (especially particular green overdrives used by a late, well-known Texas "blues...sorta...player) will form a "U", resulting in a glassy, almost acoustic-guitar sound...but with no punch and a reversed version of the phasing issue.

But...

Having used parametric eq's for years to solve feedback problems (mostly with acoustic instruments - upright bass, mando, dobro, acoustic guitar) I figured a graphic COULD likely be tweaked in a similar way. I also thought one could be used to create a "signature" tone that was not TOO evident, but just a REALLY good sound. The other possible use would be to tune to "the room":

EVERY venue has quirks. It is NOT possible to take your gear, set it up in a room, plug in your stuff, turn the volume up to an acceptable level (leaving the tone controls where they *always* are) and sound the same as in the last joint you played in. You also CANNOT judge your tone from the stage - you either need 30-40 years of experience (preferably with some behind the board), a roadie with a great ear to stand with the soundperson and politely suggest level and eq/phasing changes, or some trusted should to play your instrument while YOU work with the sound guy.

So recently I managed to pull it off FAR more easily than my overly-anal site tests. I'm using a simple Boss GE7 (7 bands and level in a stompbox). IT makes my job much easier.

But PLEASE read the last paragraph - because it's the definition that MATTERS.

Tip - when there's a crowd in the seats things change. A lot. If the soundperson is a dolt, keep your amp at low volume during soundcheck, and when playing to a crown bring it up based on experience.

Anyway - If you have tweaked an EQ unit to a particularly good tone based on your attack, amp, other effects etc (lowering band(s) that create wolf or spiked tone) then you need to tweak it for the room. Carpets, acoustic tile and curtains over walls? Add highs and bass in TINY amounts (those get lost in "soft" rooms); hard floors, slightly raised bandstand (or a stage), glass and a flat back wall - cut the lows and highs and kick up the upper mids...but adjust your overall tone first and then use the EQ for a fill or solo boost to cut through the mix.

Hear any weird "resonance? Find the band and eliminate it (not completely, just kill enough to NOT cause problems.

Do all this stuff enough times (and ALWAYS write down a site map, ALL amp settings, and all tone-enhancing effect settings - otherwise it's a waste of time) and you find that there are only about 4-5 variations in settings; NONE have a "U" or"hump" shape; and all differences are VERY subtle.

Between that, my EH Knockout pedal and sometimes my Baggs Para Acoustic DI (if ALL surfaces, including ceiling, are hard and parallel) I can usually sound exactly the same no matter where I'm playing (with some variations in setting the same general rules apply outside).

And THAT, gang, is the whole point - it's critical to get rid of the useless the "target" of sounding "good" in a room - what you want is to sound like YOU in a room.
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1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Wow, there's a lot of information here and a lot more missing; I will try to organize a few thoughts that come to mind that I do not yet see represented in this thread:
1) ALL "tone" or "EQ" control circuits, whether in a combo amp, a mixing console or an outboard EQ unit, are made up of individual filter sets that restrict some frequencies and pass or boost others.
2) ALL such filters do their business through the use of phase manipulation of one sort or another. This by definition introduces distortion to the original signal. Some circuits do a better job than others of minimizing the various undesirable artifacts of this phase distortion but there is no such thing as a "pure" EQ circuit that adjusts spectrum without phase distortion, not even in the digital realm. This is one reason that pro audio folks almost never use EQ boost, because it is also turning up the phase distortion.
3) A single octave, six or eight band EQ such as is commonly found in cheap mixers will not provide what is necessary for precision tonal adjustment, although using just one filter will often do a fine job of introducing phase distortion to the entire spectrum. A good 1/3 octave, 27-to-31 band EQ will provide a very versatile filter set and the individual filters will generally only affect the phase of a very narrow frequency band but the opportunity is there to really confuse the phase pattern of the signal if a number of filters come into play. As a musician, we will hear this loss of signal cohesion right away, the question is whether or not this loss is worth the assistance to our overall tone.
4) No mention here so far of parametric EQ, which affords a great deal of versatility while holding phase distortion to a minimum due to the limited number of actual filters in use. I used a Furman 3-band for many years until finding an Audio Arts model 4100 4-band parametric, a great sounding unit if you wish more EQ control than your standard amp can provide but don't want to get into the phase nightmare of a 1/3 octave rack unit (or worse yet, some garbage stomp box designed only to part the innocent from their earnings at minimum cost to the manucaturer).

All this being said, I also would suggest that you consider such tools a temporary measure until your hands can do what you need without the extra hardware.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I was going to reply earlier, but got busy, and many of my points have been touched upon. But here it is anyway:

On graphic equalizers:

1. The noise floors from each those parallel EQ sections in a graphic equalizer add. Unless it's a pretty high-end unit, the noise from a graphic EQ can be significant, especially if there are a bunch of gain stages in the signal path, as occurs in many guitar amps.

2. An ideal EQ would change the amplitude of the frequency band in question but perfectly preserve the phase relationship of the various frequencies in the signal. But any filter (either analog or digital) will not only change amplitude as a function of frequency, but phase also. Hopefully you're not overdriving a solid-state EQ into serious distortion (very ugly), but even a little solid-state distortion can be an issue. So it always comes down to a tradeoff between desired amplitude response and undesirable artifacts created - the 'law of unintended consequences'. My take is that graphic EQs do this the worst.

3. A good-quality graphic EQ is very intuitive to operate, and when used in a minimalist and very conservative way, can sometimes be a quick and easy fix for a small issue. For example, sometimes a room will have a really ugly resonance somewhere that can be easily corrected by minimally changing one or a few sliders on a graphic EQ by a minimally trained sound person or guitarist.

4. Rarely do I see graphic EQs used in a minimalist or conservative way. Most of the time, I see naive users crank each frequency band down, one by one, to eliminate a different problem. By the time they're finished, most or even all the sliders are cranked way down and there is zero possibility of reasonable headroom or any type of decent tone from whatever system they're 'fixing'.

Personally, if I need a bit of equalization, I prefer a really good quality 3-band fully parametric EQ with shelving on either end. It takes a bit of experience to use these properly - they're more subtle and not as intuitive, but very powerful. That said, when I'm really stuck with a problem, I have a Boss GE-7 with the Chad Matthews mod (lowers noise and so on) that I use rarely in a 'sonic emergency' or to try to make a guitar do something it's not supposed to do - like make a Les Paul 'roughly' mimic, let's say, a Strat or Tele, or an electric instrument 'roughly' mimic an acoustic one good enough for the purposes of a live band mix.

I appreciate the ideal of a 'straight' signal path between guitar and loudspeaker, and in some situations that's great. But the reality is that most guitar and steel guitar amps do a lot of EQ - the main issue is how adjustable it is. Hell, a guitar into a super-clean Hi-Fi amp with everything set flat is a real straight signal path, which is why I don't use a Hi-Fi amp for guitar or even steel guitar. Ever try that? Electric guitar sounds purely awful (to me) - OK, pedal steel is better. IMHO, electric guitars were originally designed to sound 'good' into a classic tube amp.

To me, a lot of this depends on the type of sound I'm going for. I use more EQ for a clean sound - usually the sophisticated EQs on a high-power/high-headroom pedal steel amp are fine for me, but sometimes a classic tone stack like on an old Fender needs (to my tastes) a little help. But as I push a tube amp more into distortion, I find I like less and less EQ and effects - to me EQ and effects just tend to crappify the sound. I think this is a fairly common observation, and is, IMO, one reason why higher-distortion amps tend to come with simpler EQ sections and less or even no effects at all. Most of the great old crunchy amps, e.g., those based on the tweed circuits like Marshall and Laney, had fairly minimal EQ and didn't even have reverb. Same thing with the old tweed amps - simple tone controls and didn't have reverb, didn't need it.

Remember - distortion changes the frequency response. A really nice distortion-style amp does this in a way that just naturally sounds good, ergo, who needs EQ? But a real clean sounding rig with a really straight signal path just clinically reproduces the sound coming out of the pickup. For a typical electric guitar like a Strat or Tele, yuck, to me anyway. Less so for a nice archtop or steel, to me. But still, I like some EQ for clean steel. Most of the time, I accent bass and presence some, and crank the nasally midrange out some.

I don't think one size fits all in any way, shape, or form.

PS - I agree with Bob that practicing with minimal or no eq/effects is a good way to train the hands. If you can make a Strat sound decent through a clean, flat Hi-Fi amp/speaker, just think how good it'll sound through a good guitar amp. Same for steel.

Dickie Whitley · Posted 28 Sep 2010 5:54 pm

OK, I guess I look at and use an equalizer differently here. I don't use it to shape my tone, so to speak. I'm using it to adjust my speaker to give the flatest response possible. Some could call that shaping your tone but I look at it as taking out "bumps" in the speaker response so it won't "color" the sound. Clear as mud I guess... Sad

Mark Cohen · From: Calabasas, CA, USA

OK, no one asked me, but here is an opinion.

In a decent graphic EQ device you usually have one or even two active components in the signal path for each frequency band, as well as two or more capacitors and several resistors. Here is a picture, pulled from the web of a six band circuit. The triangles are "opamps" - active circuit devices. Notice that there is one for each frequency band.

All of this is between your steel and your sound. The active parts (opamps usually) are guaranteed by the laws of physics to add some noise. They also have limited head room, so they can clip. Here are some numbers: You put a seemingly modest 12 dB of boost into a channel and the output from your steel was boosted sixteen-fold. Since the output from a guitar is about 3/4 volt, the EQ unit must be able to pass a 12 volt signal without clipping. In practice, few circuits actually have that head room. An 18 dB boost of a large signal would be guaranteed to be clipped and distorted in any standard device. Clipping is only one source of distortion, but the waveforms are altered in many ways by the active electronics. Most of the non-linearities result in a sort of deadening as the gain falls off a bit when the signal is large.

The other parts - resistors, capacitors, etc... also degrade your sound be adding unwanted signal paths to each other and through the system grounds.

Bottom line for me is use the minimum EQ. Parametric EQs are usually a better choice than a 24 band GEQ - less electronics and more natural frequency response.

Opinions cost nothing. Your mileage may vary.
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Jonathan Cullifer · From: Gallatin, TN

I'll take a 4 band parametric EQ before any graphic EQ...a graphic EQ is good for dialing a sound system for a room, but I can't conceive of any tone I could not get out of a parametric EQ. They also prevent extremes of certain bands and allow for smoother transitions between bands (adjustable Q factor is nice too).

All that said, I like simple amps. The Revelation is a pretty simple tone stack, and one of my favorite amp models in my Pod is the Vox AC30...treble, bass, and cut...

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

If I'm stuck with a bad sounding amp, or if I need to change tones often and quickly on a gig, I use the Sarno Freeloader. Its single knob does exactly what's required in those situations.
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