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Topic: some advise for guitarists who are learning steel |
Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 8:31 am |
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When I was first starting out, a more experienced player told me “You’re thinking like a guitar player. You need to learn to think steel.” At the time I did not really understand what he meant, but in retrospect I realize that this was very good advise.
Every guitarist who makes the transition to steel probably does this at first.
So I say the same thing to all of you that was said to me. You need to learn to think steel. You need to accept the steel for what it is, explore what you can and cannot do with it, and not try to play it the same ways you would a 6 string.
I said the same thin in another thread in response to a specific post, but then decided that this advise might be helpful to some other accomplished guitar players who are in the process of learning steel.
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 8:40 am
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Mike, perhaps you could be more specific as to what it means to 'think like a steeler' versus thinking 'like a guitarist'? I'm not sure I could put it into words, so I'm hoping maybe you can...
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 9:30 am
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Jim, it's such a vague concept that I can only give some examples.
The conversation that prompted the advise to me was that I wanted to make a diminished E chord, and thought the way to do it was to place the bar on the 12th fret, and drop the G#s to G, and the B's to Bb. (At the time I did not have the G# to G lower and was going to have it installed.) The more experienced player told me to use the 11th fret, and raise the E strings with the E to F knee lever instead.
At the time, it never would have occurred to me to do that.
Today I'm playing a piece that contains the notes E and F#, played sequentially, and the best way to play the passage in which they appear is to play the E note on the 7th string on the 10th fret and slide the bar up 2 frets to the F#. 30 years ago I probably would have played both notes on the 12 fret using the 8th and 7th strings, (which does not sound as good in the context of the piece,) because it would not have occurred to me to play the E note on the 7th string.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 9:32 am
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I found that all those years playing lead guitar was a drawback to learning PSG except for the ear development and musical knowledge.
Number one problem is that I thought I knew everything I needed to know about PSG because I could play lead guitar.
Number two I thought I could just take it to the gig and in a few weeks I would be a Steel player.
After wasting a lot time trying to play my pedal steel like a lead guitar I had to start all over and it took me a long time to break a lot of bad habits that I had acquired trying to move my guitar stuff over to the PSG.
Take your theory and your ear over to the PSG and leave the rest behind.
However I did find that I could carry over from PSG to the lead guitar most of the things (especially the picking hand techniques) I learned. |
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Don Drummer
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 10:12 am
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| Thinking like a guitar player is usefull when getting started. The most obvious example is the I IV V chord change. There a two that mirror what is done on the 6 string. E form I, A form IV, A form up two frets. Starting at the 3rd fret we have G, C, D. Barre at the tenth fret. A form, eigth fret, E form, move uo two frets, you get the picture. Now soloing single note phrases, guitar anaologies become less helpfull. IMHO Don D |
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Elton Smith
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 11:06 am
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Mike,and everybody else.This is where Im at right now.Ive played three finger guitar for years and the chords on a steel are fairly easy for me.Im all ears on your subject.A mentor once told me,Its not the note you hit ,but how you hit it.I don't think Ill ever quit thinking like a guitar player because I miss that old slap back off the neck.What I am trying to do is play a Brent Mason style pedal steel.Something a little different.I don't even know if thats possible at this point.Im getting some pretty weird stuff palm blocking.So keep it going guys and girls.
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 11:31 am
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i think if a guitarist wants to think like a guitarist on steel that they should be allowed to. i certainly wouldn't want to be told what i should or shouldn't do.
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 12:02 pm
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| The Carter web-site use to have an introductory lesson for guitar players transitioning to pedal steel. It had to do with the similarities of the E9 fret positions to those of the neck on a 6 string guitar. I don't know if the lesson is still on the Carter site. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 12:42 pm
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Well, I made the transition at a time when I had a pile of teenage guitar students, and I was playing bass in a band more so than guitar back then (I was always the slide dude). I actually found the confusion to be helpful, in that I had to think about music and the desired result more than about tunings or "technique."
I've read everybody from Petrucci to McLaughlin to Paul Franklin say that in their world:
technique directly develops as a result of the music they're trying to play.
All I needed a steel for was to play slide guitar with four simultaneous voices moving in jazz harmony (umm, gulp. Still working on that).
But I can't banjo-roll for doodly, I'd just hire a banjo player if that's what I wanted to hear. And, I don't. 
Blanket rules seem sort of smothering, to coin a forgettable phrase. It all depends on what you're trying to play, and on steel I want to play the same stuff I always have. But slitherier. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 12:56 pm
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I'm devoting most of my blog to this topic. Been there, done that, that's for sure.
_________________
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 1:05 pm
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
Jim, it's such a vague concept that I can only give some examples.
The conversation that prompted the advise to me was that I wanted to make a diminished E chord, and thought the way to do it was to place the bar on the 12th fret, and drop the G#s to G, and the B's to Bb. (At the time I did not have the G# to G lower and was going to have it installed.) The more experienced player told me to use the 11th fret, and raise the E strings with the E to F knee lever instead.
At the time, it never would have occurred to me to do that.
Today I'm playing a piece that contains the notes E and F#, played sequentially, and the best way to play the passage in which they appear is to play the E note on the 7th string on the 10th fret and slide the bar up 2 frets to the F#. 30 years ago I probably would have played both notes on the 12 fret using the 8th and 7th strings, (which does not sound as good in the context of the piece,) because it would not have occurred to me to play the E note on the 7th string. |
since i dont know the names of notes on the fretboard, or which notes might comprise a diminished chord this kind of revelation isnt really possible forn me currently. i play using a sense for intervals and some shapes and patterns on the fretboard but I never know the NAME of the note or chord I am playing. So in Mikes example I dont have that baggage from guitar to unlearn or rethink.
what I DO do occasionally is attempt to apply guitar techniques to the psg. These attempts have been failures for the most part and are kept to the bedroom till the day they can be realized.
i understand what MIke is sayin and think its really valid advice. i just dont think his example would apply to my situation. |
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Leslie Ehrlich
From:
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 1:42 pm
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I dunno... I don't think such thought applies to amps and amp settings. No matter what amp I plug into and how I set it, the PSG still sounds like a PSG. 
_________________
Sho-Bud Pro III + Marshall JMP 2204 half stack = good grind! |
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Elton Smith
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 1:48 pm
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As I see it,I have played guitar for 40 years and still going.Learning steel, most of the stuff is as old as I am.I know I have to learn from the masters.How ever we seem to be in a mold.Franklin wrote is steel guitar over?Could be if we don't break the mold.Zane is doing a lot,and its great stuff.How ever jazz is musicans music,common people don't understand it so they don't buy it.I could play jazz with most anyone here,and have a great time doing it.And I would like to think they would have a good time playing with me.I am a flashy lead player and will be a flashy steel player.I don't think the guitar player should get all the credit.Its up to me to make that happen.A lot of Brents stuff is steel transposed to to guitar.So transpose some guitar to steel.I say.I say steel some of the guitar players thunder instead of sitting in the corner. If you always do,what you always did.Then you'll always get what you always got!
_________________
Gibson Les Paul
Reverend Avenger
Paul Reed Smith
Fender Telecaster
MSA S10 Classic
ShoBud
Old Peavy Amps |
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Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Florida USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 2:33 pm
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| I do a lot of 6-string work. When I switch from that to steel or vice-versa my mind makes a conscious shift. I think of a round room with alcoves or open rooms all around. The round room has all the musical theory and common knowledge. The alcoves or rooms each are dedicated instrument rooms. So, when i play steel I go into the "steel room". Guitar is done in the guitar room, etc |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 3:00 pm
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Interesting topic, Mike.
These days, I play about 2 - 6 hours/day on the steel. I practice my six string very little, although I play gigs quite often. Oddly enough, working on "thinking like a steel player", my six string playing has gotten much deeper, and I've had a number of very successful gigs recently, playing very complicated music.
I attribute this to a) 35 years of guitar playing b) a very strong knowledge of musical theory and c) the fact that I don't exactly "think like a guitar player" unless I'm playing very idiomatic guitar music.
While I am trying to think like a steel player, I'm also remaining open to thinking like a musician who happens to have a PSG in my hands at the moment, and hoping to surprise myself into an interesting musical experience, while still learning idiomatic PSG stuff.
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Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 3:44 pm
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I was told very early in my steel playing career that I should "be a musician who plays steel guitar, don't be a "steel guitar player". I've tried to stay true to the logic of that statement and it has always gotten me through what ever the gig requires.
JE:-)>
_________________
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Elton Smith
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 3:54 pm
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Very well said Jim.
_________________
Gibson Les Paul
Reverend Avenger
Paul Reed Smith
Fender Telecaster
MSA S10 Classic
ShoBud
Old Peavy Amps |
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Roger Haugejorden
From:
B.C., Canada
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 5:41 pm Having to think ?
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| Do you play better when you have to think about the next thing you are about to play ? Like gee whiz how do I play that next chord ? Or do you find yourself so involved in the moment that you don't have to think about what you are going to play ? Hope the question makes sense. Roger |
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Marc Friedland
From:
Fort Collins, CO
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 7:51 pm
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I had the very same thing said about me my first few years on steel.
I didn’t totally understand what they meant until I progressed a little more on the psg.
Now I’m more capable of thinking like a steel player, but I suppose they’ll always be 6-string & keyboards influences because I played them for so many years before starting to play steel.
I think “ONE” of the significant differences is the role of the psg compared to the 6-string and where within the song structure they’re played and in particular the phrasing.
When first learning psg, I played to songs by Brooks & Dunn, Vince Gill, George Strait, and countless more from that era. I spent a great deal of time listening to where within the structure the steel came in, the phrasing and how it concluded its phrase. Eventually I memorized the phrasing to many steel parts in songs and learned about where the steel commonly played, how it connected different parts of the song and how its musical role was different than that of the 6-string guitar. I wasn’t at the point where I could execute the same parts that were on the record, but I came very close to playing the same phrasing as the parts on record, but using my own choices notes that were in my comfort zone at that time of my development.
It’s not easy to express, I hope this was helpful.
Marc
www.PedalSteelGuitarMusic.com |
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Alexa Gomez
From:
San Francisco
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 8:07 pm
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I agree guitarists tend to approach lap steel from that perspective. Most of my students play guitar and they seem to want to transpose what they know to the steel, and some who play slide guitar and think it's a cinch to play steel. Apparently not, since they still keep taking lessons.
The concept of slants, for example, daunts each and every one, including those in bands. They simply take just about forever, if ever, to grasp how a slant may imply chords, their inversions, and substitutions, rather than accurately state as fretted instruments do. Often it takes my playing against the changes for the light bulb to go off, at least hopefully so.
Meanwhile, I have two newbies who never touched a guitar, one who's brother tired of it and gave it to her, and the other whose father left a nice Electar. These two have advanced the quickest once we ramped up on basic technique. I'm super proud of them both.
Anyhoo, just my two cents.
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2010 8:54 pm Re:
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I may have told this before,but here in Texas when i started on steel C6th non pedal as most did all sounded more like a lead guitar than steel. Mostly single string. As i was coming off fiddle at the time guess i did the same as i played like the local Texas pickers or rather tried to at first.
As i am a retired O F still would like to have a single 10 pedal with the C6th but now steels are way too pricy for me.
Should have kept at least one of the many i had over the years.  Tracy
BTW. Then it went all down hill from there as i discoverd Curly Chalker. |
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Rick Winfield
From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
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Posted 22 Sep 2010 12:04 am True
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So very true in my case. Making the transition from 6 string to PSG was not as simple as I first anticipated. New feel, new attack on the strings, new type of sound, but...all those 40+ years of multiple tunings, as well as music theory,
(on guitar) gave me an advantage over someone who started out cold.It took me a couple of years to break the old way of thinking, and now, after having started my 5th year of PSG, I have arrived, still with some ways to go. Like others, I have now incorporated some "steel thinking", into my 6 string playing.
Rick |
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Owen Barnes
From:
Utopia, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2010 2:17 am
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| Thanks guys for your insights. I'm getting into the "steel" mode from years of 6-string playing. I'm kinda lookin at my transition as "augmenting" my musician-ship. I can already see, though, how I've got to think like a steeler, and not a 6-string picker! Once again, many THANKS! |
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