Phyllis' Sierra D-8

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

This was supposed to be a reply to Phyllis' posting regarding her Sierra D-8, but I goofed and hit the wrong button. Too tired to type it all again, so I started a new thread.

Phyllis:

I just reviewed your tuning chart. First we need to make sure we are speaking the same language. Comparing your chart to the photos of the underside, I believe your C6th neck is your "front" neck (defined as the neck furthest from your body as you sit at the guitar), and your E9th neck is your "back" neck (the neck that is closest to your body as you sit at the guitar). I base this on the number of cables going to each neck. Please verify that this is correct.

If I am correct your setup is the opposite of most double neck guitars. But there is a certain logic to this. The E9th tuning you have will require a lot of two footed action, and it is somewhat helpful to be able to look down at your feet on occasions. That is easier done when playing the back neck. So don't change it.

Previously I suggested you may want to eventually add knee levers. I have had second thoughts on that subject. Your guitar is truly a piece of history. It has its limits, but it should be accepted for what it is. Certainly for now, forget adding knee levers.

Now here's a copedent for each neck with a few suggestions.

E9th

Pedal-------4-----5-----6-----7-----8-----9

1---F#------------------------------------G

2---D#------------------------------D

3---G#------------A

4---E-------------------Eb----F

5---B-------C#

6---G#------------A

7---F#

8---E-------------------Eb----F

You could get by without the half tone lower on the eighth string, which you didn't list on your pedal chart, but you really do need the half tone raise on the sixth string, which you also didn't list on your chart. Let me know if you can't devise a way to get that raise on the sixth string.

This gives you all the basic E9th changes except for one. To complete the E9th changes it would be really helpful if you could raise the fourth string a whole tone. You are already raising that string a half tone on pedal 7, and this changer probably does not allow for two different raises. It might be possible for some talented PSG mechanic to devise a half-tone tuner, such as are used on Emmons push-pull guitars, to overcome this problem. If that were possible, you could either add a knee lever, or put the change on an existing floor pedal that you would engage with your fight foot, because this raise would be used in combination with your pedals 4 & 5. A challenge like this is right up Jim Palenscar's alley. (Steel Guitars of North County, Oceanside, CA.) In the meantime, just play what you have, and have fun.

Also, for purposes of comprehending standard PSG tabs, and the discussions on the forum you should understand that your pedals relate to the following standard pedals and levers.

your pedal------standard pedal or lever

4---------------A pedal

5---------------B pedal

6---------------E lever

7---------------F lever

8---------------D lever

9---------------G lever

If you someday added the fourth string whole tone raise, then when used in combination with your pedals 4 & 5, you would have the same change as the standard B & C pedal combination for the typical E9th tuning.

C6th

Pedal---------1------2-------3-------------------9

1---G---------G#

2---E-----------------F

3---C------------------------D--------------------B

4---A------------------------B

5---G---------F#

6---E-----------------D

7---C

8---A

If you could get these changes on your C6th tuning you could play a large portion of the standard C6th repertoire. Obviously the 9th floor pedal would be making a change on both necks. That's perfectly OK if you can devise the hardware to make it happen.

The C6th tuning is a viable tuning with no pedals or levers at all, but the E9th tuning really needs pedals.

If you get the mechanics worked out, and learn to play this, you will be a real one person show with all the fancy footwork you'll be doing. You can do it.

Best wishes. Paul

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

Hi Paul
That is a pretty high pitched tuning, E9 minus the two low strings. The lowest note would be an E played on a standard guitars D string, 2nd fret.
It's interesting to look at the evolution of the E9 tuning, for instance Bud Issacs' 8 string had a low E and low G# below his B and D strings.
Then the low F# and high G# were added in the 50's, and the low E and low G# were gone.
Personally if I was to play an 8 string E9 tuning, I would go with this variant, I would rather have the low D and B, than the high F# and D#. I'm a big fan of 50's and 60's country. You could play Mooney style ala Buck Owens and Merle Haggard, early Ray Price, my favourite Jimmy Day stuff, my favourite Tom Brumley stuff, etc.
This tuning seems to have the standard for a number of years, up until the high F# and D# were added in '63 or so, making it a 10 string tuning...Jerry

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Danny Bates · From: Fresno, CA. USA

I also agree with Jerry Fletcher.

I also think on the C6th neck I'd drop that high G string and keep the low F string. In other words, I'd just drop the lowest and highest strings.

Phyllis Erck · From: Montana, USA

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

The suggestions of Jerry, Earnest, and Danny are all good. Regarding the C6th tuning, the high G string is probably the most unused string in the standard tuning. It would be very logical to either tune that string to a D (below the second string pitch), or drop the string altogether, moving everything up one string, and add a low F in the 8th string position. If you do this, you will want to raise the 8th string a half tone with your pedal number 1.

The E9th tuning I suggested is admittedly very high pitched. It only has two wound strings!! I guess that is a reflection of how I play E9th, and what I think I use the most. My way is NOT the only way.

Do not hesitate to experiment with tunings. That's all part of the process of learning to play the beast. You will find you have many options and ultimately you must pick your own path.

Phyllis Erck · From: Montana, USA

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