| Author |
Topic: Best Speaker for Steel AND Guitar? |
Duane Reese
|
Posted 2 Sep 2010 11:29 am |
|
I'm looking for recommendations... What is the best or most middle-ground speaker, probably in the 12-15" variety, being used in both pedal steel and electric guitar amps or cabs?
My follow-up question is: what electric guitar combo amps with solid state power is it usually found in?
My idea is to get a decent electric guitar combo, that happens to have suitable speakers and solid state power that will do nicely when taking in a signal from my steel rack...the intention being that I can bring steel and guitar to a gig and have one cab that's appropriate for both jobs. Some combos might have pres that would do both okay, but I like the idea of two pres that I don't have to reset. I'd prefer it with a solid state power amp because I don't want to lug around two power amps, and I prefer solid state power for steel more than tube power for guitar. I definitely don't want a tube amp with no standby, because I don't want to switch the speaker and leave the tube amp without a load, nor do I want to switch it on and off all night.
Another option would be to get a bigger rack with guitar and steel pres in it, a power amp, and a cab with such speakers. Any suggestions? |
|
|
 |
Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
|
Posted 2 Sep 2010 11:46 am
|
|
I dont really have the solution to your problem or answers to your questions but:
I use an emminence Kappa lite 15 inch in a Marrs ultralight cab for steel and guitar. My main goal was to reduce weight.
My guess is that the most commonly used (and most likely pretty darn good) speaker for both steel and guitar would be the jblD130 12 inch found in some twins.
In think weber makes a product that will switch two heads to one cabinet and provide a dummy load for the unused head. with one of those your choices for guitar amps (heads)would be increased greatly and you could switch amps without hassle. I have no idea what they cost tho.
ah, here it is $150, thats not too bad..i may have to get one for home use io have a ton of amp heads and fewer cabs to use em all with.
https://taweber.powweb.com/store/2head.htm |
|
|
|
Thom Ferman
From:
Las Vegas, NV, USA
|
Posted 2 Sep 2010 12:23 pm
|
|
I have a Fender Custom Vibrasonic combo amp. It came with a 15" Fender/Eminence speaker that sounded good with steel but had kind of flabby lows with guitar. I replaced with a 12" Eminence Man 'O War (one of the Red Coat Series Eminence speakers). Really tightened up the low end with 6 string and maintained a very sweet steel sound. I have a custom built Sarno Freeloader featuring 2 inputs that switch with a toggle between steel and six string. When playing six string, I engage a Danelectro CTO Transparent Overdrive to achieve proper guitar to steel volume levels and to add a little hair and grit to the six string. I then go through an EH phaser and delay and ride everything with the volume pedal. This proves to be a very quick and reliable way to switch between steel and six string for me and it all runs in to one channel of the amp. I never have to touch volume or tone controls when switching.
_________________
Thom Ferman
---------- |
|
|
|
Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
|
Posted 4 Sep 2010 6:10 pm
|
|
Duane, I really like the sound of Electrovoice EVM 12L speakers. Ken Fox mentioned a bit ago that Weber makes a similar spkr. High efficiency makes it sound like you have more amp power. Tight, solid feeling lows, and the highs sound smooth to me. Don't sound shrill when using distortion, but clear enough for sparkle clean guitar or steel.
Big magnet and cast frame, so there is some weight. |
|
|
|
Ron Davis
From:
Lake Arrowhead, California... We're a mile high. ;)
|
Posted 4 Sep 2010 7:01 pm
|
|
Anyone ever try EV SRO's for psg
Seems like they'd sound great.
And they weigh a TON. lol
_________________
Emmons 12 p/p, Revelation, Black Widows, (& way too many assorted goodies...)
Drummer with a pedal steel fantasy. 
www.LA-Zep.com
www.Desperado1.com
www.CMWChicagoTribute.com |
|
|
|
Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
|
Posted 7 Sep 2010 12:11 am
|
|
JBL K-120
_________________
Olli Haavisto
Finland |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 7 Sep 2010 9:27 am
|
|
well my take is this, I use Fender Gold Label 12's made by Eminence,I believe the 50 watt models found in Hot Rod Deville's and Twins.. To my taste they are bright first and not strong in the mids which is my preference. Good low end response as well with pretty good clarity. Hard to tell what SS amp you wanna use though, I am now back to a 71 Twin for double duty, with a pair of the Emmi's mentioned above. Going forward I plan to use 2 single 12 cabs ( one open and one closed ) with the same Emmi's along with a 71 Dual Showman Reverb head.
It's just a circular game...
t
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
|
Posted 7 Sep 2010 10:29 am
|
|
My bad. I Misread this as what AMP is best.
I use a Music Man HD 212. Great all purpose amp that's not just good for steel and guitar, but also banjo (sorry b0b) and mandolin. I've been told that the stock speakers were made by Eminence. A few years ago, they gave out after 30 years of service. I originally replaced them with Black Widows, which sounded terrific but which brought the weight of the amp up to 104 pounds, so I swapped them out for some Carvin speakers, which I'm told are also made be Eminence, and are in fact very similar to the original stock ones.
It still sounds great, however it still weighs over 80 pounds. I'm going to sell it and get 2 ZT clubs instead.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin
Last edited by Mike Perlowin on 7 Sep 2010 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
|
Posted 7 Sep 2010 6:53 pm
|
|
| What Olli said, really! |
|
|
|
David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
|
Posted 7 Sep 2010 8:30 pm
|
|
| It's harder to make a 15" speaker sound good for guitar than it is to make a 12" speaker sound good for steel, IMO. I use Peavey Black Widow 12's for high volume stuff, and for lower levers I have a Fender 12" PA cabinet with the horn disabled and a 12" Eminence Beta-12A in an open-back cabinet. |
|
|
|
Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
|
Posted 7 Sep 2010 11:21 pm
|
|
BTW I had a chance to play through a Music Man amp just like mine, but that had been retrofitted with a 15 inch speaker instead of the two 12s. I don't know what brand. I thought it did not sound as good as my amp does.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 8 Sep 2010 12:35 am
|
|
The amp that Mike mentions, the MM HD130 2x12 is a great amp..maybe too great ! I used one for about 6 months,I was not impressed with the stock MM 12's, they were too middy for my taste so I did put in a set of ...yes again..Fender 50 watt Gold Label 12's made by Emmi, for me it opened up the highs and the mids. The only thing I can say about this amp is that it is real friggin' loud and real friggin' heavy ! But it may very well be one of the best 2x12 combo amps ever made on the planet earth. It can perform Steel and Guitar duty's very well but you may have to seek a speaker that performs to your taste.
PS..Clapton used 6 of these on stage during the 80's !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Rick Kreuziger
From:
Merrillan, Wisconsin
|
Posted 8 Sep 2010 3:52 am
|
|
Duane,
Here's the cab I built: http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=182371&highlight=
Fairly small footprint and it gives the best of both worlds. My rack has 2 separate preamps and a toggle to select one or the other, plus a mute position.
Speaker cab has a 12" on top, 15" on the bottom; I connect one speaker to each channel of the power amp.
In the past, I struggled with trying to optimize with one amp/speaker and always found one instrument favored. This setup has been working very well.
Some of the sound people at the "sound provided" gigs are a little stubborn about putting 2 mics on my cab, but oh well.. 
Rick |
|
|
|
Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
|
Posted 8 Sep 2010 4:06 am
|
|
| Tony Prior wrote: |
The (Music Man HD 212) amp ... may very well be one of the best 2x12 combo amps ever made on the planet earth. It can perform Steel and Guitar duty's very well but you may have to seek a speaker that performs to your taste.
! |
If you can handle the weight, (104 pounds) the amp with the black widows is nothing short of spectacular.
Tony is right about the amp. It's great. The guy who sold it to me (so he could buy a Mesa Boogie) subsequently went to work at a local music store, and every time I went in to by strings and stuff, he told me selling it was the worst mistake he ever made and it I ever wanted to sell it, he wanted it back. (If course, now that I want to sell it, he doesn't work there any more.)
When Leo Fender sold his company to CBS, there was a clause in the contract saying that he could not go into competition with them for 10 years, so he sent that time doing research on how to improve his guitars and amps, and the original Music Man line was the result. The guitars with active electronics did not sell well and were were discontinued when Ernie Ball bought the company. The basses and amps are still being made.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
|
|
|
Duane Reese
|
Posted 8 Sep 2010 7:54 am
|
|
Thanks a million for the responses, guys. This has really put me ahead of the game.
I still have my eyes open but I think the direction I'm presently leaning is toward power & pres in the rack and an open-back cab. A single or 2x12 cab loaded with the Gold Label 12s or Black Widows would probably do great, but then again, I can't help but love the sound of a 1501DT-4 Black Widow 15" for steel... I've used it for guitar too and I could hang with that just fine, as long as it has its own settings of course. I don't know how BW 12s or Gold Labels compare tonally to the 1501DT, so if that gives you any idea of my taste...you might have a better idea that me.
I was thinking about using a power amp I have sitting here: Crown XLS 202. That baby is 200W/side into 8Ω....yeah. Probably not the best tool for the job. The load is most likely going to be 4Ω, so any power amp suggestions?
One of those dual 28 or 31 band graphics would be a good thing to have. On steel, I'm currently using a White 4200A which is superb, but I had that earmarked for another application and I only have one anyway...
Thanks again to everyone, and keep the suggestions coming! |
|
|
|
Rich Hlaves
From:
Wildomar, California, USA
|
Posted 8 Sep 2010 9:42 am
|
|
Duane,
Don't overlook the Weber Neo 12 and 15. I have a pair of the 15s and couldn't be happier. Guitar and steel. Kind of a JBL D120/D130 tone with just a tad less bite on top and tighter bottom, a good thing to my ears.
As for your power amp it is rated @ 200W per channel @ 8 ohms and 300W per channel @ 4 ohms. It is not recomended to run it bridged @ less than an 8 ohm load. It should work just fine as a stereo amp with an 4 or 8 ohm load on each side. If you are running mono, parallel the inputs and run a 4 or 8 ohn load on each side. It shouldn't give a damn either way IMO.
I have not used the Crown but have used a QSC RMX850 in rack steel rig. Over powered and heavy but the thing got the job done and it does have a volume control. I stopped using the rack and now use a '70 Twin Reverb with a D130 or a Dual Showman head with the Weber 15s. I'm a tube guy at heart I guess. I would like to set up a second Twin with Weber Neo 12s when finances allow.
_________________
On man....let the smoke out of another one. |
|
|
|
Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
|
Posted 9 Sep 2010 6:31 am
|
|
What they said.
JBL K-120 (or D120f)
Brad |
|
|
|
Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
|
Posted 9 Sep 2010 7:20 am
|
|
Another vote for the Weber Neos. IMHO they are better sounding than the JBL's for guitar, nearly as good for steel and wonderfully light weight. They are the best double duty speaker I have found, regardless of weight. As Rich mentioned, the high end is a bit smoother than the JBL's, the bass is good and tight but what I really like are the mids. Very complex and ear pleasing.
However, like the JBL's that they are modeled after, the Weber Neos are a little short on power handling. Both the 15" and 12" models are rated at 75 watts. I reluctantly had to remove the 15" I had installed in my Twin because it was distorting at high volume. |
|
|
|
John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 11 Sep 2010 2:38 pm
|
|
| Best amp I ever had was a Lab, with a 15" Electrovoice speaker. Wonderful-sounding amp and speaker, for both pedal steel and Telecaster. Was really bummed out when I got a Peavey Vegas. Hated that amp! But I got it for a ridiculous deal when TNN bought a bunch of stuff from Peavey. Others love these, and I understand! Just not my thing. The Lab sounded like a tube amp on steroids. I'm sorry, but I don't know the EV model number. |
|
|
|
Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
|
Posted 15 Sep 2010 6:35 am
|
|
I second Tony Prior's vote - Emminence Fender Gold label 12".
They are not expensive either - just bought another on e-bay for $45.00. |
|
|
|
Harold Dye
From:
Cullman, Alabama, USA
|
Posted 18 Sep 2010 8:02 am
|
|
| I like options. When using my rack I use either two JBL D-120's (reconed) or two JBL's, a D-130 and a K-140 (original speaker out of my old Vibrasonic). If I want to bridge the rack amp (Stewart) I use a BW 1501SB. I also use the BW with a MM 150watt amp head and get an outstanding sound. By having all this stuff broken down like this I don't need a fork lift to move it. |
|
|
|
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
|
Posted 18 Sep 2010 8:28 am
|
|
I played steel through a Mesa/Boogie with a 12" Electrovoice EVM for many years. It was a fine rig for steel and guitar. The advantage of the EVM is that is was rated for more watts than the amp could produce. This means that there was never any speaker distortion. The EVM had real good low end response too.
The disadvantage was weight. It's a really heavy speaker, and Boogies aren't light amps to start with. The best one I ever had was a 60 watt Mark IIB - man, that amp could sing!
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
|
|
|
Duane Reese
|
Posted 18 Sep 2010 7:27 pm
|
|
| Anyone ever tried an Eminence Legend 125 on steel? |
|
|
|
