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Topic: Using Canola Oil , et. al. |
A. B. Traynor
From:
4th Street& Royal ave New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 3 Sep 2010 3:05 am |
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Anybody tried it? If so, how effective is it?
Keep on rockin' in the free world-- so says Neil Young Thanks for the help in advance |
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Allan Munro
From:
Pennsylvania, USA and Scotland
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Posted 3 Sep 2010 5:04 am
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Never tried it in a steel but I know that it thickens up as time goes by. I think it must contain quite a lot of volatiles. I have used it for other purposes than it was intended for. May not matter in the small quantities that would be applicable in a steel but it also can go a bit rancid and smell too.
Just for clarity, my application was on some equipment that goes in the sea. The environmental lobby stopped us using mineral oil so we experimented with various alternatives. The final choice was peanut oil. Still smelled bad after a few hours on deck in the sun though.
I am no expert but I do feel that any veggie based oil would be at a disadvantage from the start. I am talking about the 'going off' aspect. Oh, on that theme, we tried a fish oil at one point too - BAD choice!
Regards, Allan (the non-expert)
_________________
Only nuts eat squirrels.
Television is the REAL opiate of the masses! |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2010 8:04 am
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Makes horrible biscuit gravy...  Just kiddin, never tried it on a guitar but I would think it would attract dust like a magnet and eventually gum up the works. |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 3 Sep 2010 11:50 am
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Canola oil works great in a salad dressing recipe. I would never let it near my steel. Fish oil is the same. We never use WD 40, right? The main ingredient in WD 40 is fish oil
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2010 10:07 pm
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I am seriously wondering if this is a joke thread.
That would rate about as low on the ""bad" scale as using WD40 - or Krazy Glue - as lubricant.
If it's NOT a joke - can I ask why you would even think of such a thing?
Might be a good time to suggest the "search" link - you'll find 100 threads (at least) on lubrication; while there are still some old-school oil users, most of the folks I know of who have posted with lube problems have found dry Teflon (the dry Tri Flow, Blaster's dry formula and a few others) to be the solution AFTER completely flushing old gunk out of all the moving parts. Teflon (again, the dry version - the one with mineral oil is not as desirable, but it's still better than other oils) does not attract dirt/dust or break down over time as oils do.
If you can't locate a thread detailing that, email me and I'll get you the info.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 4 Sep 2010 12:10 am
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I use soybean oil on my strings so the cheese doesn't stick to the strings when I'm slicing cheese.
I use a light turbine oil that Carter used to sell. Works great. Has a long tube that extends out of the bottle to get into tight places. Only thing missing is the 5'7" woman with long dark brown hair to hold onto the bottle while you tip her up too pour the oil. 
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2010 7:22 am
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| "Tri-Flow" seems to have gotten the seal of approval here on the forum. |
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Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 4 Sep 2010 9:27 am
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Never use WD-40 or Liquid Wrench to lubricate. These are actually solvents, and they will dry up after a while and create this gummy residue. Not good.
Some of the best oil I've found is the oil they make for sewing machines. It's a very fine clear oil. Much better than 3 in 1. It's precision oil.
_________________
Chip
Williams U-12 8X5; Keyless; Natural Blonde Laquer. |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 4 Sep 2010 10:25 am
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I am doing some sort of a "study" into the suitability of 3 different oils: Triflo, jet engine oil (turbine oil) and ATF. It's slow but I will report back to you when I get some results.
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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David Beckner
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 4 Sep 2010 12:51 pm
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Bent, as having more experience than myself I as you..'Wouldnt any oil containing the natural sugars etc. found in vegetables and fruits break down to a syrup type gum over time??
I wouldnt think this would work at all. 
_________________
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WALKER SEAT
NASHVILLE 400
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http://www.dbupholstery.yolasite.com |
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Bob Hickish
From:
Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Sep 2010 3:30 pm
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Bent
I don’t think ATF would be a good choice - in my experience with Hydraulics , the MIL 5606 hydraulic fluid is about the same as ATF and it will make a sticky gummy mess when aged and exposed to air --
JMO - Hick |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 4 Sep 2010 5:59 pm
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| David Beckner wrote: |
Bent, as having more experience than myself I as you..'Wouldnt any oil containing the natural sugars etc. found in vegetables and fruits break down to a syrup type gum over time??
I wouldnt think this would work at all. |
David, yes I believe that is correct. That's why veg oil or WD shouldn't be used.
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 4 Sep 2010 6:12 pm
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| Bob Hickish wrote: |
Bent
I don’t think ATF would be a good choice - in my experience with Hydraulics , the MIL 5606 hydraulic fluid is about the same as ATF and it will make a sticky gummy mess when aged and exposed to air --
JMO - Hick |
Bob, it sounds like you have way more experience with that oil than me. I hadn't really considered the fact that ATF is always in an enclosed container and not exposed to air.
I just thought since ATF works under extreme heat and pressure for hours and days on end, like in a bulldozer, it might be good enough for a simple mech like a steel guitar changer.
I have ATF in my changer mech right now. So far what I see is that the ATF has some great detergent qualities. There is a layer of black dirty oil on the parts. The black I guess is the dust and crud that is being kept in suspension. I lubed the guitar about 3 months ago. It is set up all the time. Still the oil comes up through the fingers. Once in a while I have to wipe them clean. The changer works great. No binding or sticking fingers. Pedals work easy etc.
The guitar sits in my shop all the time, exposed to normal shop dust from metal and woodworking. Maybe extreme conditions?
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Duane Reese
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Posted 4 Sep 2010 6:30 pm
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Jeff Newman recommended using lighter fluid to purge the old gummy oil, and then using flat 30 weight to oil it up again. According to him, one should not be concerned about lighter fluid doing anything to your finish should you happen to get any on there...but lay some newspaper down first.
When I've done a tear-down or copedent change, I've been known to use moly grease, and that always worked well. |
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Bill Howard
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2010 7:36 am Atf
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| Bob Hickish wrote: |
Bent
I don’t think ATF would be a good choice - in my experience with Hydraulics , the MIL 5606 hydraulic fluid is about the same as ATF and it will make a sticky gummy mess when aged and exposed to air --
JMO - Hick |
Bob I'm a Master Automatic Transmission Technician/Teacher and although there is a vast difference in different types of ATF CHEAP not being a good choice.. a valve body in an Automatic transmission is probably one of the most sensitive things on earth next to rocket science or Hand grenade  , GOOD Atf does NOT gum up period they coat new Valve Bodies with ATF then put them in heavy plastic,I also have had Auto transmission parts on the shelf for several years again no gumming up ATF is also highly detergent made to clean. ATF is a pretty fair lube,remember planetary gear sets rotate several thousand RPMS and most people never change their Transmission fluid,I know..Heat is about the nly thing that will kill ATF |
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Bob Hickish
From:
Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 5 Sep 2010 11:28 am
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Bent & Bill
you all have more resent experience in the field of oil than I - I first come across the hydraulic oil drying problems back in the 50’s so it would make sense there has been improvements -- My experience is all aircraft systems and I can say that the hydraulic oil is a good anti-corrosion treatment for aluminum . when it comes to modern types of oil , I would be inclined to want know what type detergent is used in it -- if its a caustic type , it would tend to eat aluminum -- Don’t get me wrong guys , I’m not trying to change your experiment ideas , there are just some things about different metals that ( IMO ) need to be taken into account .
Good luck on your quest -- for what its worth I use sewing machine oil . |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 5 Sep 2010 2:33 pm
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Bob, Thanks for clarifying.
I think we can say that any lube that does not gum up is good for a pedal steel. And even if the lube you use does not attract dust and dirt, it certainly don't reject it totally. So common sense plays a role here. That being our experience with the instrument and the awareness that things do get dirty and to take the precaution to clean thoroughly once in a while and lube with our favorite lube.
In my experience so far (which is small, I admit) is that WD 40 is bad. Also, something discovered by accident: White grease...it tends to harden I took apart, cleaned and re-lubed some tuning keys. They had been lubed earlier with white grease. It had hardened into the consistency of soft candle wax. It was definitely hampering the mechanism because, boy did these tuners work a lot more freely once they were cleaned and re-lubed! I have no idea how long the grease had been in there.
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 5 Sep 2010 3:49 pm
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Sewing machine oil, or "light machine oil" is effective. Don't use automotive crankcase designed/destined oil. It has antioxidants, detergents, and emulsifiers that are not appropriate for this application.
_________________
Lawyers are done: Emmons SD-10, 3 Dekleys including a D10, NV400, and lots of effects units to cover my clams... |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 5 Sep 2010 4:07 pm
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Ray, you may be right, who knows? But the thing is that an experienced picker I know of uses exactly that crankcase oil #30 weight. Works for him, has worked for many years, om new guitars as well as older ones.
I hope he reads this so he can tune in and verify what I said.
One thing I want to debate though: detergent in the oil might not be a bad thing. It is there to keep the dirt in suspension, just like it is obviously doing in the oil I have in my changer at the moment.
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Bill Howard
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2010 5:53 pm Atf
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| Bob Hickish wrote: |
Bent & Bill
you all have more resent experience in the field of oil than I - I first come across the hydraulic oil drying problems back in the 50’s so it would make sense there has been improvements -- My experience is all aircraft systems and I can say that the hydraulic oil is a good anti-corrosion treatment for aluminum . when it comes to modern types of oil , I would be inclined to want know what type detergent is used in it -- if its a caustic type , it would tend to eat aluminum -- Don’t get me wrong guys , I’m not trying to change your experiment ideas , there are just some things about different metals that ( IMO ) need to be taken into account .
Good luck on your quest -- for what its worth I use sewing machine oil . |
Bob first off transmission cases are made from Aluminum other than some old transmissions like cast iron p glides cruisomatics and some old Chrysler units that were cast iron. Also valve bodies which are the brain of transmissions are also aluminum the detergent in Automatic trasmissions is not caustic is gently cleans,you can put ATF on greasy hands it will disolve old grease,it doesn't dry out,gum up and like I said it protects and lubes transmissions some people never change their ATF so it is proven durable,Valves in Valve bodies have close tolerances no room for gumming up,a Changer on a pedal steel does not get anywhere near the abuse of an Automatic transmission. Remember ATF is MADE for Aluminum and steel parts to lubricate and keep clean a great lube for Pedal Steels I have been doing this for over 30 years. Just my opinion |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 5 Sep 2010 6:56 pm
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30 Weight straight, without additives, would be a close approximation.
I got my info from a fella named Gabe Giordanno, who was a petroleum chemist with the Kendall Oil people about 15 years ago. He explained the info I posted previously that there's stuff (additives) in motor oil that gets in the way of "ideal" lubrication conditions when used with gears, pulleys, shafts etc. Gabe explained that there are chemicals in the motor oil that act hygroscopically to capture and retain water in suspension. You don't want your lubricant to be absorbing moisture from the air.
Years back I helped a kid prepare his Pinewood Derby car. We trued the axles on a milling machine, honed the wheel ID's, polished the nails to a shine, and used a mixture of triflow and graphite dust for lubricant.
He came in second to a fella who cheated even worse than we did.
_________________
Lawyers are done: Emmons SD-10, 3 Dekleys including a D10, NV400, and lots of effects units to cover my clams... |
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Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 6 Sep 2010 2:49 am
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I suspect the often (mis)used WD-40/Liquid Wrench got more embraced as a 'lubricant' when it came out in spray cans. Now it was much quicker and easier to spray on the 'lubricant'; rather than fuss with nozzles. Nozzles had to be pierced or cut to a proper diameter so as not to squirt out TOO much oil. Before plastic tips on oil cans, you really had no control. You got the size opening that came with the container.
I realized the problem with WD-40/Liquid Wrench years ago [before I even owned a pedal steel] when my tubing cutters started working worse after awhile when I used those solvents. They soon got dried out and gummy; and messed up the rollers, cutting wheel, and threaded tension shaft.
Does anyone remember Marvel Oil? I always thought that was pretty good oil, but was never quite sure. I think it was red in color. May have been disquised kerosene.
Might have been known, too, as Marvel Mystery Oil.
FWIW
_________________
Chip
Williams U-12 8X5; Keyless; Natural Blonde Laquer. |
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Chip Fossa
From:
Monson, MA, USA (deceased)
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2010 8:24 am
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There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding “TriFlow” Teflon lubricant.
There are two major versions of Tri-Flow on the market:
1. “Tri-Flow Superior Lubricant”. This is the most common version, found in most hardware stores. It goes on wet and the liquid solvent evaporates, leaving a slippery film of Teflon.
| Quote: |
| “Tri-Flow Superior Lubricant provides twice the lubricating power of most competitive brands. Its light viscosity allows for deep penetration into hard to reach moving parts.” |
http://www.triflowlubricants.com/Superior_Drip/superior_drip.html
Many Forumites have reported good results with this “regular” version of Tri-Flow, and several steel guitar builders and mechanics recommend it.
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2. “Tri-Flow Superior Dry Lubricant”. This version is typically found in bike shops.
| Quote: |
| “Tri-Flow Superior Dry Lubricant was specifically designed to lubricate like an oil and stay clean like a wax. Its exclusive formula includes paraffin wax and high grade petroleum oil which penetrates as it quickly sets up and dries, leaving a thin, visible, coating that repels water as it lubricates.” |
http://www.triflowlubricants.com/Dry_Lubricant/dry.html
The wax was apparently added to the “dry” version sold in bike shops to prevent rain and mud from removing the Teflon coating on your bike chain and other exposed parts. Since most people do not play their steel guitar in the rain or drag it through the mud, I don’t understand why anyone would knowingly put paraffin into the precision mechanism of a steel guitar.
Not knowing that it contained paraffin, I had a disastrous experience with this “dry” version of Tri-Flow—a very small amount gummed up the roller nuts on my steel and caused it to be out of tune. I will never use “dry” TriFlow again--except on my bicycle!
There are a couple of Forumites who keep touting this “dry” version of Tri-Flow with paraffin; however I have never heard any steel guitar builder or mechanic recommend it.
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Most steel guitar builders and mechanics recommend light machine oil or gun oil, and that’s what I’ve returned to using.
- Dave |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2010 3:56 pm
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I have "touted" TriFlow here for years, and have used it for more than a couple decades. But I've always recommended the "wet" version. I've not even seen the other one, and I agree, it's not for a steel guitar. My son was a pro bicycle mechanic for years and he always used the TriFlow Superior version also.
Someone who disassembles his guitar every year, or so, for a good cleaning, would do fine with a fine grade of oil. I just prefer the superior lubrication that the teflon provides. I think it's more consistent in all temperatures where we would play a steel.
Oil's viscosity changes with temperature, teflon's doesn't.
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Best regards,
Mike |
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