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Topic: Mic vs DI Box |
Joel Hill
From:
Ridgeland, Mississippi, USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2010 11:09 am |
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| Our sound man is asking me to purchase a DI box for some of our larger places that we play. I would prefer a microphone. However, the DI will allow use of the amp as strictly a moniter. I have a direct out on my Nashville 1000/Ken Fox mod. any thoughts. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2010 11:23 am
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Peavey has a DI box that has a speaker emulation so the signal sounds more like a miked amp.
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Joel Hill
From:
Ridgeland, Mississippi, USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2010 11:34 am
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Thanks, Erv. do you know off hand if this unit has a ground lift switch on it? I can look it up on the Peavey site.  |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2010 11:39 am
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Joel,
Sorry, but I can't answer that question.
This unit is inserted between the amp and the speaker. Then there is a cable that goes from the DI box to the PA. |
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Michael Robertson
From:
Ventura, California. USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2010 11:51 am Di
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It depends where the DI is placed.
If the DI is straight from the bass then it gives the audio engineer the option of mixing your natural tone from the bass to the bass amp speaker.
If the DI comes from your DI output on the amp it maybe Pre or Post EQ.
Either one will be mixed with the microphone on the amp speaker.
It gives the engineer options to build a good mix. |
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Michael Robertson
From:
Ventura, California. USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2010 12:18 pm Ground Lift
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A quality DI will be transformer isolated which should negate the need for a ground lift switch.
However some Transformer Isolated DI’s still come with a ground lift switch. |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 30 Aug 2010 2:52 pm
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| Man, that's just not going to sound as good as micing your amp! |
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Tommy Shown
From:
Denham Springs, La.
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Posted 30 Aug 2010 10:03 pm
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When I record the engineer has me hooked up to a DI, to the mixing board. I really don't care for it,because I feel like I am not getting the sound I want. In other words it's like the engineer controls it. I would rather mic my speakers to my amp.To me it sounds alot cleaner.
Tommy Shown
SMFTBL |
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Jason Hull
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Posted 31 Aug 2010 2:11 am
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| If you're playing in a venue large enough to require mic'ing the amp, then the engineer does control your sound. Using a DI box just makes the engineer's job easier, which means he'll have a better chance of making you sound good. If you don't trust your sound man, then it won't matter whether you're using an amp or a DI box! |
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Karl Nutt
From:
Fayette City, PA U.S.A.
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Posted 31 Aug 2010 5:42 am
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| I have used the built in DI on both the Nashville 1000 and Nashville 112. I have found them to be very excellent sounding. The down side is that some sound engineers tend to EQ the steel with a lot of high end and/or bottom end. If you can get them to take the time to EQ your steel channel on the board to sound exactly like the amp sounds, it is a great working DI. The Nashville 112 seems to work especially well like this. I've played some rather large outdoor gigs and have been complimented on the sound of the steel by other musicians that just can't believe that much sound comes from such a small amp (the NV 112). I still mic my Evans and Twin when I use them as I can't seem to get a direct box to sound right with them, but the Peavey NV 112 and NV 1000 built in DI works fantastic IMHO. |
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Bob Vantine
From:
Freeville, New York, USA
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Posted 31 Aug 2010 6:18 am
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isn't that the idea of having a amp with that built in....so you don't have to buy &/or carry more gadgets 
_________________
EQUIPMENT:
"TEAK" ZUM STAGE-ONE Steel / C6th Lapsteel
Peavey NV112 , CLASSIC and EFX112 amps
Peavey Guitars |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 31 Aug 2010 6:24 am
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| A guy can never have too much stuff! |
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Michael Robertson
From:
Ventura, California. USA
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Posted 31 Aug 2010 6:46 am
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| Jason Hull wrote: |
| If you're playing in a venue large enough to require mic'ing the amp, then the engineer does control your sound. Using a DI box just makes the engineer's job easier, which means he'll have a better chance of making you sound good. If you don't trust your sound man, then it won't matter whether you're using an amp or a DI box! |
YEP |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 31 Aug 2010 6:59 am
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| Michael Robertson wrote: |
| Jason Hull wrote: |
| If you're playing in a venue large enough to require mic'ing the amp, then the engineer does control your sound. Using a DI box just makes the engineer's job easier, which means he'll have a better chance of making you sound good. If you don't trust your sound man, then it won't matter whether you're using an amp or a DI box! |
YEP |
NOPE. The tonal difference will be noticeable, and if your sound man cant make a mic;ed amp sound good, you have bigger problems. |
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Karl Nutt
From:
Fayette City, PA U.S.A.
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Posted 31 Aug 2010 7:44 am
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| Of course the MIC itself and where it's placed will also make a difference. Bottom line, the sound tech just can't be tone deaf! |
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Gerry Simon
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2010 2:07 am
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| I've never liked the sound of my steel going direct to the PA...The speakers in a steel amp have a natural roll off of the highs and some of the boxes are even tuned to influence the sound; direct puts the sound thru PA horns w/o that natural roll off and makes the highs sound thin and cutting. Even assuming the sound guy has an idea of what sound you are looking for doesn't mean he can find it with the tone controls he has to work with. I usually have to reposition the microphone after they set it up as they position it straight in front of the center of he speaker and I don't like those harsh high freqs. |
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Jason Hull
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Posted 1 Sep 2010 3:45 am
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| Marc Jenkins wrote: |
NOPE. The tonal difference will be noticeable, and if your sound man cant make a mic;ed amp sound good, you have bigger problems. |
Exactly my point. You've got to have a good sound man, or it just won't matter which method you use. |
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Karl Nutt
From:
Fayette City, PA U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Sep 2010 7:46 am
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| Fortunately I was blessed with a soundman that also plays pedal steel! It seems too few sound engineers know exactly how the instrument should sound. I agree that most tend to get the "ice pick" tone regardless of whether it's running direct or through a mic. The NV 112 direct does a pretty remarkable job in the right hands... |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 1 Sep 2010 1:38 pm
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I'm sorry but I do not see the point that your sound op is striving for, why he wants a DI instead of an amp. The bleed form other instruments cannot be that great if he is using a decent mic, and the big drawback is that if you mic the amp and you get the sound you are making, if you DI the amp you will get the sound that you have to create TO COMPENSATE FOR THE SPEAKER'S RESPONSE CURVE to get the sound you want from the speaker, not at all the same thing.
Bottom Line: IF YOU ARE GETTING THE SOUND YOU WANT FROM THE AMP YOU WILL NEVER GET THE SOUND YOU WANT FROM THE DI, regardless of how cool or smart your sound guy is, if he is asking this of you then he can't be that cool and you need to tell him NO and have him consult with an audio pro with some real-world experience behind them! |
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Karl Nutt
From:
Fayette City, PA U.S.A.
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Posted 2 Sep 2010 8:17 am
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| WOW.... |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2010 10:01 am
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The DI box doesn't capture the tone of your speaker. If you're not picky about speakers, go with the DI. If the speaker tone is important to you, insist on miking the amp. I often carry my own SM-57 (with windscreen) and a real short mike stand just for such occasions.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 2 Sep 2010 10:50 pm
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Yes, Karl, I said all of that with a great deal of emphasis and perhaps less tact than some might find appropriate. My dander is way up over seeing so many musicians being jerked around by "sound guys" whose only qualification for the job is a willingness to show up for little or no money. They start without clue one about the science, theory and practice of sound reinforcement, never mind how we got here from where we used to be, and once given a wee bit of power become demanding experts in their own right, making changes for the sake of seeing their own impact on the universe and spreading mis-information and confusion in their wakes.
In this case it's a veritable no-brainer, if the instrument is electric and the sound of the amp and its speaker are part of the audio product we mic the amp, end of story (this is why the Direct Input POD has a speaker emulation engine post the amp modeler). If, on the other hand, the instrument's voice presents a greater tonal range than can be properly reproduced by a guitar amp, such as most keyboards, acoustic guitars, dobro, "clean" fiddle, etc., a direct connection interface supporting such a high-fidelity signal is deemed appropriate AND THE MUSICIANS HEAR THEMSELVES THROUGH THE STAGE MONITORS which, again, support much higher fidelity reproduction than a guitar amp. Note that stage amps specifically designed for keys always feature a discrete high frequency driver in addition to a 12" or 15" speaker in an effort to produce full spectrum audio more accurately, and bass amps have no need of reproducing the highest frequencies, yet we still try to take a feed directly from the bass whenever possible to avoid tonal coloration from the amp EQ which, again, is set to get the desired sound from the amp's speakers, not the PA.
Friends and neighbors I did not make any of this stuff up, these have been industry standards around the world for decades, not because some guy said he wanted to try it or some comany put out a product and sold it but simply because the science is absolutely solid. |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 3 Sep 2010 2:18 am DI box built in...
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| Karl Nutt wrote: |
| I have used the built in DI on both the Nashville 1000 and Nashville 112. I have found them to be very excellent sounding... |
I use the built in DI on my NV 1000 regularly. I run my 6 string or mandolin thru a Digitech Compressor into one channel, and my steel into a Hilton VP to the other channel. All my other pedals go thru the post eq loop. The tuner mutes all thru the loop, and the individual volume of guitar and steel is regulated by the volume knob and Hilton respectively. Works great for me at any size venue, since I can turn the master volume off and hear how it sounds thru house monitors and mains, then add amp volume as needed on stage.
Clete |
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Karl Nutt
From:
Fayette City, PA U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Sep 2010 3:58 pm
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| Dave, I actually AGREE with you! I'm sorry if I sounded offended. My point was that I've been blessed with a sound engineer that actually does understand these things and is also a pedal steel player to boot. He is one of the few guys that can get my house sound just about dead on to the amp sound by using the built in DI on the NV 112 or NV 1000. Now I've tried using a direct box on my Evans and 135 watt Twin. While it's usable, using a mic is difinitely the way to go with those amps. I have an old AKG mic (can't remember the model off the top of my head) that I've found to be excellent for steel... even better than a SM57. I use a SM57 to mic my Pro Junior for distorted slide guitar sounds with my steel. I wouldn't even consider using a direct box for that because as you've said, the tone has a LOT to do with the speaker. Geez, now you've got me wondering just how much better my NV 112 may sound with the AKG... Karl |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 3 Sep 2010 5:36 pm
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| Karl Nutt wrote: |
| ...I have an old AKG mic (can't remember the model off the top of my head) that I've found to be excellent for steel... even better than a SM57... |
I am gonna take a wild guess it might be the D190E model:
I've had this mic for years and just recently picked a few more up on eBay real cheap.
Clete |
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