Copedent Question: Why is my steel set up differently?

Phil Ajjarapu · From: Portland, via Austin, TX via Chicago

O.k., so when i got my steel a year ago, it came with a couple of DeWitt Scott books. In each book is a copedent, but my steel doesn't match it. The A, B, and C pedals are the same.

The chart says the D knee lever should lower 2 a half step, the E knee lever should lower 4 and 8 a half step, the F lever should raise 4 and 8 a half step, and the G lever should raise 1 and 7 a half step.

Well my D lever does what the G lever should do. My G lever does what my E lever should do. My F lever is the same. And my E lever lowers 2 a whole step and 9 a half step, but i have to be really careful because i can go past that... it doesn't have a definite stop on it like my other knee levers.

I'm getting pretty comfortable finding my way around in this setup. Should I change it to standard? Is the copedent in my book even standard anymore?

Let me see if I got this right. Basically my E is on G. My G is on D. My F is the same... So I'm missing what ought to be on my D which is the half step lower on 2.

Looking forward to your input.

Thanks,
Phil Ajjarapu

Phil Ajjarapu · From: Portland, via Austin, TX via Chicago

Wierd, i could swear i put this in the pedal steel forum, and here it is in the Steel Players forum.

Should I wait for someone to move it, or should I just delete it and start over?

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

The letters D,E,F,G, don't actually refer to the location of the levers, rather their function. On guitars with the Emmons set up, the LKL lever will usually raise the 4 th and 8th strings, the LKR will usually lower them. Beyond this, any other lever can be used to raise or lower any other strings. You can call the levers anything you want, as long as you know what they do. All writers of tab might not use the same names for the levers, you need to know how the writer named the levers, and transfer that to however your levers may be arranged. It sounds like that is what you are doing.

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Phil Ajjarapu · From: Portland, via Austin, TX via Chicago

At the end of the day, i can get all of my Diatonic chords:

I ii iii IV V vi viidim

and consequently if I need say a Major II, I move my I chord up a whole step with the bar, or if I need a minor iv, I figure out where that chord would function as vi in another key, etc...

Am I missing anything super useful by not having the half step lower on 2, cause that's the one change I don't have that's on the chart in my book. Am I gaining anything useful by my lever that takes my D# and D down to C#, cause that's the lever I use the least, partly because i'm not accurate with it.

Thanks for the clarification on the nomenclature, Bill. Have you found any advantages physically for having certain changes on certain legs?

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Phil, apparently you and I were typing simultaneously.

As to the question of advantages of one configuration or another of knee lever location, there's really no consensus on that. Arguments can be, and are, made for various options.

Many, I'd really say most, players find the 2nd string D extremely useful, more so than either C# lower. Not to say that the C#'s aren't very useful as well.

Phil Ajjarapu · From: Portland, via Austin, TX via Chicago

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Off the top of my head: I use the 2nd string D for single string melodic playing, as for example playing out of the pedals-down A chord position, where D is the fourth note of the major scale, or any situation where the no-pedals E chord is a 7th chord. Harmonized melody similarly--with the top two strings "open", they are a minor third; with the D lower you have a major third. Working with string pairs 1-2, 3-4, and 4-5 and the other changes on those strings there's a lot of ways to go. Chord-wise, of course the D gives you the E7 chord, E9 if you add the 1st string.

Did you see what I wrote above about the 2 & 9 lever? Some people don't care for half stops (feel stops) and reconfigure to either do without the 2nd string C# or separate the two 2nd string lowers to different levers.

The C# lower on 2 I use for melodic bends, occasionally for an E6 chord with the fifth included on the 5th string. A cool lick is to hit string 5 w/A pedal and string 2 w/C# lower, making a unison, then smoothly release both.

The C# lower on 9 is useful for a V7->I resolution: e.g strings 9-8-6 open, press B pedal and C# lower. It also serves for some good chords, which I can't list away from the steel. Find 'em!

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

phil, most steels have a majority of the same pedal changes on them. over time with some experimentation you may find a more convenient location for those changes on whichever pedal/lever position you find suits your style best. this is partly what keeps steel players somewhat unique. my pedals are set up just enough differently that it makes my friends mad when they try to play my steel. that is very entertaining for me.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

I am curious to know if your guitar originally had the feel stop on 2 and perhaps something is loose underneath that should be stopping the lever action.

I have a 1/2 step "feel" stop on my 2nd string lower, when doing a diatonic walk-up or down (as in 4+5,1+2,3+4) the 2 string will sometimes be a major 7th (Eb) and others a minor 7th (D), depending on the chordal context. Having the additional drop to Db to match string 9 is a happy thing when you can get it but not so essential as the 1/2 step lower.

As Pete suggests, most of the guitars I have seen that do not have the feel stop simply drop the 2 to Db and the 9 to D (1/2 step each) with the same lever.

Phil Ajjarapu · From: Portland, via Austin, TX via Chicago

My brain just slightly melted. I need my steel in front of me to hear this.

When I described my levers, DEFG, I was referring to them as LKL LKR RKL RKR, although I now know that the letters can refer to pitch alteration, and not their geographical location.

O.k. this is going off of my first post, and I'm going off of memory too, as to what I use them for.

LKL Raise 1 and 7 1/2 step (wow... i can't remember for the life of me what I do with this without looking at my chart, i mean, i know I use it a decent amount.)

LKR The D and D# down to C#. This the change I use the least, as I have trouble tuning it, and i haven't wrapped my head around the theory of it. Brint, i'm going to try your uses of it when I get home, but I think i want that D# to D lower.

RKL Normal, i guess. Raise 4 and 8 1/2 step (I use for diminished chords alot, but also to get the inversion of the major I chord with the A pedal, that inversion that lies between no pedals and AB pedal inversion)

RKR Lower 4 and 8 1/2 step (my favorite change, love it melodically, love the major 7th chord)

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Dave G., I believe you've inadvertently switched string numbers.

Elton Smith · From: Texas, USA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7LzyPV48u4&feature=related .Couldn't get it to link but look at this.
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Barry Hyman · From: upstate New York, USA

The lever that raises the F# string(s) to G is useful when you have pressed the A and B pedals (turning your open E triad into an A triad) and you want to make it into A7. In addition it has many melodic uses, and also turns your open E chord into E minor if you change your grip.

I lower the second string D# to C# a lot -- you have (still in open position) a B major triad on strings 1, 2, and 5. When you lower the second string a whole step, you get a nice classic country modification of that chord, from a major triad to a sus2 chord. That pull is also useful when decorating the minor chord you get when you lower the E strings to D# (G# minor in open position) and also sounds good with the minor chord you get with the A pedal (C# minor in open position).

Dropping the ninth string from D to C# is very useful in blues, since it lets you toggle between a sixth and a seventh chord. Lowering the ninth string to C# also contributes to several wonderful pentatonic scales you can get (still in open position). Lower the second and ninth strings to C# and you have E major/C# minor pentatonic scales. Add the lever that lowers the E strings to D# and you have (open) B major/G# minor pentatonic scales. Raise the E strings to F, with the ninth string lower still engaged, and you have a very cool (open) C# mixolydian scale.

In short, don't change anything (except maybe get that knee lever that travels too far fixed) and don't worry -- you have plenty of good stuff, sufficient for years and years of fun!
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Phil Ajjarapu · From: Portland, via Austin, TX via Chicago

Phil Ajjarapu · From: Portland, via Austin, TX via Chicago

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I have a separate lever to drop D# to C#.
It gets alot of use in both E9th and B6th contexts.
When I lock into a full B6th that D# string is a C#.
fwiw, At this point I think a half-step "feel" on that string will hinder your learning curve.
One guy that has some great 2nd string D#>D licks is Rusty Young. Check out some Poco if you are into that.
The beauty of it all is that you can either keep it the way it is and learn the half-step feel.
Or, Set it up to hard-stop at D#, with the option of going back to the full step lower when it makes sence for your learning progression.
Or, put it on another lever.
Bob H. will surely have good advice.

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