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Topic: Sho Pro scale length??? |
Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 16 Aug 2010 4:39 pm |
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???
Larry Behm |
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Benton Allen
From:
Muscle Shoals, Alabama, USA
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Posted 16 Aug 2010 5:32 pm
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Larry,
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but It's my understanding that the scale is determined by the client ordering the guitar. could be 24, 24.25, or whatever he/she would like.
Benton |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 17 Aug 2010 1:50 am Show Pro
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| Benton is correct, the scale length option is determined when the guitar is ordered. (Jeff recommended 241/4" scale when I ordered mine). |
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Chris Lang
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Posted 17 Aug 2010 7:19 am
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| Quote: |
| Benton is correct, the scale length option is determined when the guitar is ordered. (Jeff recommended 241/4" scale when I ordered mine). |
Yeah......
That's about as long as you can go with a keyed guitar without breaking strings........
That's why you won't find a keyed 25 inch scale.
BUT!
Get a keyless Excel with a 25 or 25.5 inch scale. Then you will see what real sustain is.
Sierra offers a keyless 25 inch scale as well.
Tone to the bone!
_________________
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 17 Aug 2010 1:38 pm
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| Keyless guitars have no tone. Sterilty. A Sho-Pro will beat an Excel in the tone category hands down. Thats why all the Nashville heavy weights are getting them. Not even in the same class where tone is concerned. |
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Chris Lang
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Posted 17 Aug 2010 2:59 pm
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| Quote: |
| Keyless guitars have no tone. Sterilty. A Sho-Pro will beat an Excel in the tone category hands down. Thats why all the Nashville heavy weights are getting them. Not even in the same class where tone is concerned. |
In other words, you don't like the way they look!
On the contrary. Part of the tone is due to sustain. Most educated folks can reason that a keyless design will have more sustain, simply by design.
No lost vibrational energy in the keyheads as in the alligator models!
_________________
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 17 Aug 2010 5:16 pm
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Interesting discussion . . .
. . . however, if the keyless guitars sound so great, why is it that 99+% of recording or road players play keyed guitars? Just curious. Didn't Paul or Bruce get the memo?
It's not that keyless is a new thing. I remember both Sierra and Excel (then called 'Fuzzy') guitars at Scotty's in the mid 70s. It's had plenty of time to catch on so if it's truly superior, tonewise, I'd have thought you'd hear more keyless guitars on sessions or see them being used on the road with major acts.
Maybe I'm just unaware, but I don't remember ever seeing a keyless guitar being played by a major pro player. Wonder why. As Kevin mentioned above, I have also noticed a STAGGERING number of heavy hitters (Mike Johnson, Tommy White, Dan Dugmore, Russ Pahl, and MANY MORE) going to Show Pro guitars over the past few years. I sure like mine. (and, yes, it has keys -- and a 24 1/4" scale)
Since Tommy White has been on the Opry I've seen him play Carter, Fessenden, MSA Millennium (and probably others I don't recall). Seems he's been playing the Show Pro mostly in the past year or more, but NONE of those guitars has been keyless. Maybe he didn't get the memo either.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Brett Day
From:
Pickens, SC
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Posted 18 Aug 2010 9:31 pm
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| Larry Bell wrote: |
Interesting discussion . . .
. . . however, if the keyless guitars sound so great, why is it that 99+% of recording or road players play keyed guitars? Just curious. Didn't Paul or Bruce get the memo?
It's not that keyless is a new thing. I remember both Sierra and Excel (then called 'Fuzzy') guitars at Scotty's in the mid 70s. It's had plenty of time to catch on so if it's truly superior, tonewise, I'd have thought you'd hear more keyless guitars on sessions or see them being used on the road with major acts.
Maybe I'm just unaware, but I don't remember ever seeing a keyless guitar being played by a major pro player. Wonder why. As Kevin mentioned above, I have also noticed a STAGGERING number of heavy hitters (Mike Johnson, Tommy White, Dan Dugmore, Russ Pahl, and MANY MORE) going to Show Pro guitars over the past few years. I sure like mine. (and, yes, it has keys -- and a 24 1/4" scale)
Since Tommy White has been on the Opry I've seen him play Carter, Fessenden, MSA Millennium (and probably others I don't recall). Seems he's been playing the Show Pro mostly in the past year or more, but NONE of those guitars has been keyless. Maybe he didn't get the memo either. |
Larry, Tommy White played Derby, Carter, MSA, Sho-Bud, Fessenden, and ShowPro steels since he's been on the Opry.
Brett |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 18 Aug 2010 10:25 pm
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| That means nothing. Tommy White ENDORSES the Tommy White model Show-Pro steel guitar. Big difference. |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 19 Aug 2010 4:12 am
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| A few years back, Buddy Emmons was the staff player on the "Church Street Station" TV show on TNN. At that time he was playing a keyless D-10 Sierra, and while the quality of the playing certainly needs no comment, IMO, his tone was lacking the richness he had (and has) attained on other brands of guitars. |
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Chris Lang
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Posted 19 Aug 2010 5:40 am
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Kevin says:
| Quote: |
| That means nothing. Tommy White ENDORSES the Tommy White model Show-Pro steel guitar. Big difference. |
Yeah.
You would "endorse" it as well if they gave it to you!
David says:
| Quote: |
| A few years back, Buddy Emmons was the staff player on the "Church Street Station" TV show on TNN. At that time he was playing a keyless D-10 Sierra, and while the quality of the playing certainly needs no comment, IMO, his tone was lacking the richness he had (and has) attained on other brands of guitars. |
Hmmmmmm.............
Maybe he was not mixed correctly. A keyless guitar has to sustain better, due to simple physics!
And sustain has a lot to due with the creation of tone. After all, if your strings will not vibrate long enough to carry you through your passage without dropping off, you are at the mercy of your volume pedal, which may, or may not be up to par.
I think the people who do not like a keyless guitar, just do not like the looks, and therefore are pre-set on not accepting them, even with all of the obvious advantages. You know, the old "it jes don't like right" old timer sort of mentality.
_________________
NOTE FROM ADMIN: The "Chris Lang" account was determined to be fraudulent.
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 19 Aug 2010 6:04 am
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To begin with, you are making unwarranted assumptions. Jeff Surratt doesn't give guitars away to ANYONE. Back in the days when Emmons or Sho-Bud were making thousands of guitars a year that may have been possible, but Jeff has yet to hit 100 guitars. Mine was delivered in late '09 and it is number 52. He can't afford to give one away. He has a mortgage to pay and Show Pro is his income and the guitars are built with HIS HANDS on HIS PROPERTY (right out behind his house). Show Pro is a man (Jeff) and a legacy (Duane Marrs), NOT a factory with big money to back it and guitars to give away to entice the major players to play their brand.
I have seen some very attractive keyless guitars -- mostly natural finish Klines and BMI's and a few others. Looks has never entered into my decision and I'd suspect if those who record for and back major artists thought a keyless guitar actually DID sound substantially better they would be playing one. It just ain't so.
I also remember Buddy's assessment of the Sierra (didn't remember that it was a keyless one, however). To paraphrase, he thought the C6 sounded fine but the E9 'just didn't have it'. At the time he just didn't want to play an Emmons guitar, as I recall.
You can make the physics argument 'til you're blue in the face. Pro steel players know what sounds good to them when they hear it. They HAVE heard keyless guitars. Most of those whose living depends on their sound just choose not to play them. That's the fact, regardless of what the calculations tell you. My push-pull Emmons doesn't have a 25" scale length and I have to hold it down to keep it from sustaining TOO LONG -- PLUS, it sounds great and is the yardstick by which the tone of other guitars is measured. Apparently, the keyless guitars haven't made the grade on that particular calculation, regardless of what the physics might indicate.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 19 Aug 2010 6:28 am
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| Tommy White can get a deal on any guitar that he chooses. He only chooses to endorse ONE out of all of them. Show-Pro. |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 19 Aug 2010 7:42 am
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getting a DEAL is not the issue
getting one FREE ('if they gave you one') is what was said
As I'm sure you know from your business, Kevin, giving an endorser a guitar at COST is a long ways from giving them one for FREE. I think he gave me a pretty good deal for what I got, but Jeff made a few bucks off it. I have no doubt he gave TW a better deal but reality is reality. He can't afford to lose money on a guitar -- not for long.
And your point is well taken: He, Mike J, Dan D, Russ P, and all the others are the best advertisement he could have. But, only building a handful of guitars a month doesn't allow for giving away guitars. I believe that's a phenomenon of the past.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Chris Lang
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Posted 19 Aug 2010 7:47 am
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| Quote: |
| Tommy White can get a deal on any guitar that he chooses. He only chooses to endorse ONE out of all of them. Show-Pro. |
Yeah, I know. Show-Pro is the new Rains, which was the new Performance and so on.
Point is:
Very little innovative ideas have been incorporated on these latest guitars.
Yeah, you might like the grain of the wood, but what about the progressive mechanical features that these "come lately" guitars have to offer?
Please do not enclude "endorsers", just real, newly designed, smart, technological features.
These new keyed guitars are very similar.
And I agree, some do sound somewhat decent.
Not in the sustaining department though!
_________________
NOTE FROM ADMIN: The "Chris Lang" account was determined to be fraudulent.
Many posts made from this account were deliberate attempts to undermine the integrity of other Forum members.
Many statements made by this user were knowingly false and inflammatory, a disruptive technique known as <i>trolling.</i>
The "Chris Lang" account has been permanently deactivated. |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 19 Aug 2010 8:58 am
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Please close this thread at my request, I just wanted to know about scale length.
Larry Behm |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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