The evolving PSG

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

Here is a summation of progress toward the future PSG:

ZIRC Bars...being made and accepted.

Integrated tuner/changer...being accepted.

Advanced tuning structures, such as the 13 series, incorporated into an E9 like base on finished instruments.

Pedal and lever position to voltage boards are in, and they work!

Individual string pickups...boards are in, and they work!

Chord location pgm for various tuning/setups developed and functional.

Next will be computer control of the pedal/lever position voltages, and the individual string pickup signals.

Some folks have asked for and received the chord location PGM, which contains the 4 tone chord inversions and more...if you want one, email me. Warning...this is for the E69 uni with the 13 series included.

Where we are headed is to the PSG without the changer mechanics, and more musical flexibility such as computer programmable setups and all that goes with it.

Ray Harrison · From: Tucson, Arizona, USA (deceased)

Ed, great work, looking forward to seeing some of this in action, soon I hope.
Take care.
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D-16 Martin, 1970 Ovation guitars

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

Hey Ray...If I had your tone filled tonsils I would not have to do the above.

Edp

Richard Damron · From: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)

Ed -

Interesting, to say the least.

Some thirty-five years ago I designed and built a pickup for an arch-top guitar having individual magnet/coil assemblies. The "mother board" had screwdriver adjust pots for level and rudimentary EQ before summation at the output. Just couldn't reduce the physical volume of either of the two "breadboard" assemblies to a point which satisfied me. Thus, it was put upon the shelf and left unattended - sadly - for all of these years.

As you know, I welcome evolution as regards the PSG - and laud your experimental efforts in that direction - but said evolution begs a pertinent question: - How far does the PSG "evolve" before it ceases to be a bonafide PSG? "A rose by any other name..."? - or a "new" instrument which just happens to have the PSG in its' lineage?

I'd hate to think that the time spent dissecting your "13-series" tuning was purely an academic gesture with no practical application other than to plug it into a program on my PC which drives a black box containing the PSG of The Future! Too much of that thing called "evolution" will breed nothing but another computer-controlled electronic instrument. Seems very incongruous to think that - in the extreme - any nerd without any musical sensibility could outperform an Emmons, Hughey, Franklin et al.

Given time, someone is surely to engineer the cognitive and physical dexterity aspects out of the instrument. The "fun factor" will have gone to hell in a handbasket.

When is "enough", enough? Maybe I'll have enough years left in which to make that decision. For the foreseeable future I'll settle for any and all "tweaks" which improve the current model - even if only in small increments.

Respectfully,

Richard

David Ball · From: North Carolina High Country

Thirty years ago, I was working with electronically controlled servo systems that were capable of easily handling what a pedal steel requires--some of them were pretty crazy hydraulic or air actuated arrangements, but most were either stepper motor or voice coil type. But they had sophisticated feedback systems for their day, monitoring velocity, position, etc. Modern electronics have made all of that even more feasible. We were controlling that stuff with TTL quad NAND gates or discreet transistors/tubes in those days. Microprocessors changed everything.

Some of the modern electronic pianos that have actions that emulate "real" pianos show that it's possible to retain some of the character of the original instrument in the high tech version. I think that retaining the "feel" is a big part of the challenge. I had the privilege of knowing Bob Moog (of synthesizer fame), and the user interface/ergonomics of the instrument seemed to be as important or moreso to him than the gee whiz factor of his electronic instruments. I believe that maintaining or improving the feel of the instrument will be critical in player acceptance of radical new ideas. The zirc bar is a good example in my view.

Hats off to Ed for daring to go down this path--it will present many challenges, but definitely has possibilities.

Dave

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

RD...Yea verily and five or six sooths!

A chap has to do something between the entry and exit points...I had my fill of performing by the time I was 20 yrs. Even before that I was making reverbs with screen door springs and shellac record cutter heads.

Re the individual string pickup...packaging for this one looks like 1.5" by standard pickup length, by less than 0.250". the .5 in the 1.5 is just to take up space so I can mount it in the Sierra pickup holder.

No windings, no lights, no IR, etc. the same circuitry gets me the pedal and lever position (non contact) in voltage form.

I suppose that the PSG will evolve just as it has...where is the "guitar" in PSG except for a few string gauges.

At some point we all tend to resist change...take Jerry Byrd and pedals...bar slants and finger pulls sufficed for JB and Billy Robinson...I can't touch either of them!

Even Byrd, at the ISGC listened to Bill Stafford and said..."if I was to play pedals I would want to sound like that".

"long way to go and a short time to get there" i'm just enjoying myself and hoping that it lights someones fuse.

The 13th series is built into my BEAST, and also as a 4X5 unit. Still working on writeups including chord location lookup tables for the 4X5...it is essentially an Emmons' E9 in uni form but with a C# as the 2nd string. Send you a copy if you like...

Edp

Wayne D. Clark · From: Montello Wisconsin, USA

I do not pretend to understand all that you have said but it sure tweeked my interest. For example when it comes to Pedals would you just have a sensor to activate the change and what about easing in to the change how would that work. Would it be the same for the levers, such as a sensor under the back edge of the cabinet to pick up the movement of your knee. or would one have to ouch the Pedal and lever with out moving either to make the change?

Just thought I'd ask.

Wayne D. Clark
Desert Rose s10 3/5
Goodrich volume pedal

Richard Damron · From: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)

Ed -

Need you ask? You know.

Send me a copy.

Respectfully,

Richard

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

I'm working on a vibrating massage pac seat. Its going to have 3 speeds. "Gentle", "Stimulating", and "Whoa mama!!!"Now thats change that you can believe in.

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

RD...Ok, it is in the mail..er...email.

KH...Battery or wall wart? Certain parts of your anatomy may become "well shook up".

Allan Munro · From: Pennsylvania, USA and Scotland

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

We are talking about digitizing and via arithmetic manipulating the string vibrations with the pedal/lever positional info.

Elton Smith · From: Texas, USA

Are you saying ,mash the pedal and it's done electonicly?Servos do the pulling?The changer is servos.I can see digital string frequencies.But what is the out come,how does it sound,how is it better than what we do know?
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Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Ed, I was going to call me seat "The Volt", but that name was stolen from me.

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

As a guitarist and avid MIDI enthusiast since 1982, I welcomed the digital age with open arms.

There and back, I have somewhat returned to the "old school" mentality of tube amps and analog gear. Maybe thats what is so appealing to me about the mechanical physics of the PSG.

I can foresee a MIDI controlled PSG similar to the Line 6 Variax using the 0-127 controller changes, using strings of non tuned pitches that is completely digital and modeled after different brands and amp configurations.

There are some digital things now that emulate acoustic/analog so well, its hard to tell the difference. As a keyboard player, I chased the digital dragon for years, learning about different synthesis methods and algorithms, but at the end of the day now, I get just as much enjoyment out of my Boston piano as I do my Korg X50. I think the same holds true for PSG, and I look forward to a day where my MIDI PSG sits beside my other steels as just another musical possibility.

Clete

Chris Lang · Posted 18 Aug 2010 5:54 am

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

No servos...Carl Dixon was going down that path...never heard how it came out.

If synth was the goal, I already have those functions via a Roland BK- pickup and synth(s).

The electronically sensed ped/lev position will ramp into the final halftone shift just like now except...One may set the ped/lev tension to suit themselves, and program the tunings/shifts to other than the physically tuned setups/copeds.

The first unit will be a standard PSG (Sierra Session 14 str) with the rods back off...same ped/lev setup so as not to offend the traditionalist's sensibilities re standard appearance...but, no mickey mouse ears for tuners.

RD...another update on the chord location chart soon...I am trying to find a satisfying format = never ending search.

Mike Vallandigham · From: Martinez, CA

30 years ago, I was suckling on my mother's teet!

To me, a pedal steel is a wonder of MECHANICAL ingenuity, that delivers ORGANIC music.

I have a pretty new Excel, 12 string, E9th/C6th that changes between an extended E9th and full 12 string C6th(with both high D and G) by the use of a lever on top. This lever also CHANGES what strings the right knee levers pull. In E9th, it delivers the standard E9th RKR and RLK Pulls, in C6th, it delivers the Standard C6th pulls also.

It also had anit-detuning integrated into the keyless key head. Again, totally mechanical.

The fact that it does this all mechanically, is what really makes me dig this guitar. There's no power anywhere on it, not even active pups. It would be all too easy to have a servo do the anti-detuning (using an individual string pick-up) or to have a servo, or electromagnetically actuated locking devive do the Knee lever assignment changes.
Not to mention doing the change from E9th to C6th tuning by electronic tuning machines/etc.

I accept all this new fangled stuff Mitsuo is doing because it stays true to the original idea of a Pedal steel, a mechanical device that give the sweetest organically inspiring music.

I talked with Carl often about his servo idea (It was to use a swiveling foot pedal that would change tunings as you played) Not for me, but VERY forward thinking and ingenious.

All that said, I really dig what guys like Carl and Ed Packard are working on. We've gotta go somewhere.

But dont go too far, we could end up with a computer that reads tab and puts out the sound of a steel.
(do we already have that - MIDI?)

Allan Munro · From: Pennsylvania, USA and Scotland

I am wondering at what point does arithmetic manipulation of a signal, albeit in real time, cross over into synthesis. Many so called synthesizers today start out with sampled sounds, at various intervals, which they then manipulate to fill in the gaps. I think what I am wondering is, if the sample is collected and processed in real time, is it any less synthesized?
I have a fair bit of experience in robotics having been heavily involved in the building and using of underwater work and inspection vehicles. For that reason I lean towards the mechanical manipulation of string tension. I like the thought of servo systems under the control of a small computer (Arduino or similar) which is taking input from the pedals and levers. However, I am intrigued by what you seem to be going for and will watch the thread with a great deal of interest.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

Regards, Allan.....
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