The pedestal we put ourselves on

Mark Dershaw · From: Arizona and Ohio

A re-occuring thought comes to me as I read a lot of threads here on the forum. In a musician’s world, all things related to music are huge. From listening to it, to playing it, to getting paid for it. What we tend to forget is how music and musicians fit into other peoples’ lives. It’s a fact that there is a small percentage of people out there who really love music and for that, they respect and admire what a musician can do. The majority of people walking the face of the earth like music, but it plays a miniscule part in their lives. I was a middle aged man before I realized that there are just a whole lot of people out there that could give a bunk about my talents. And there I was thinking everyone should treat me special. Confused

Michael Robertson · From: Ventura, California. USA

Mark I don’t know about the “pedestal“ metaphor but I know how you feel.
It’s kind of depressing isn’t it?
It makes me ask myself sometimes “Why do I bother?”
But then I’ll be playing somewhere and someone will pay me a compliment and it’s all good again……
…….For awhile anyway.

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Anyone who plays a musical instrument usually plays it for self satisfaction and all that comes on the side is just added bonuses. Probably 90% of steelers would love to back a big star or play on a stage in front of 50,000 fans. The truth of the matter is, not even 1/2 of our steel guitar player's community get to play with a local band or on a stage on a regular basis.

Though I have been fortunate enough to play several instruments and have been lucky enough to play with various stage bands over 50 years, I still consider the steel guitar a personal, self satisfaction instrument. It's a fantastic that can fit your mood perfectly.

Cal Sharp · From: the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN

Mark, I've had that same thought. Are we special?
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Mark Dershaw · From: Arizona and Ohio

It took me awhile to get over it. As a matter of fact, I quit playing out for a few years. Once I was able to take a realist approach to it, I'm much happier. That is the reason I posted my thoughts on the matter. I sense a lot of frustration from forum posters that stem from expectations of the general public. Musicians can drive themselves crazy expecting the general public to think and feel about music the way they do.

Mark Dershaw · From: Arizona and Ohio

Hi Cal, I've read your article before. You actually present 3 different scenarios.
1) Daily life out on the streets. I've never expected recognition there. Heck, half the people I work with don't know I play in a band... and I don't advertise it!
2) At the gig. Here's where I thought I was special, and through too many experiences to mention, found out differently.
3) Other musicians. Now where I'm from, that is where I get tons of praise. I play multiple instruments, but the minute the pedal steel comes out... well, it's probably because there or so few steel players around these parts.

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

it takes a certain amoutn of conceit to engage in any artistic activity because you are assuming anyone cares what you have to say. The painter or the novelist just assumes what they have to say is important and people are going to want to hear/see/read their thoughts and share their feelings. "Waht?! you dont understand or care that my lettuce leaf scuplture represents the fragility of the female id?!! you uncultured ungrateful philistines!"

Its a challenge for GOOD artists to get past this...i suspect many artists never even entertain this problem and are oblivious to their self importance. I certainly saw multitudes of them graduate with MFA's who thoughtn whatever they had to say was headline news. But making art is a legit activity and a pretty cool one, its gotta be done and people DO care what you have to say if your a good artist and can say it well.
Its a struggle to get past if you are a thinking person...try not to think about it and just make the art/music? Laughing

Maybe it helps to know there have always been "special people", or at least poeple who thought themselves special enough to make art throughout the ages. HUman beings that go to the grocery store sure, but with whatever special thing it takes to make them whitle that log into a bear sculpture or string together a series of notes into a melody. Thats not in everyone

David Nugent · From: Gum Spring, Va.

After much thought on this subject, the fact that no one regards me as anything out of the ordinary because I play several instruments and belong to a band does not seem to affect me a great deal. What seems to however is when the name of a player that I hold in high esteem is mentioned in conversation, yet no one recognizes it but me. For example, mention the name Vince Gill, and most everyone nods in recognition, mention John Hughey and you get far fewer responses. The point being I guess, is the fact that it disturbs me that these players are not given the recognition that they well deserve for in many cases helping to actually shape the signature sound of the artists they work with. (Witness that distinctive ending lick on the guitar intros and solos that makes most Ernest Tubb recordings instantly recognizable and used by all the guitarists that worked with Ernest, possibly created by Billy Byrd?).

Barry Blackwood · Posted 10 Aug 2010 1:56 pm

Of course we all want to be, at least, relevant within our circle of people. Anything beyond that is icing...

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

It's been a fact of life that "back-up" musicians don't get the recognition they deserve, except from their peers. I also have found the majority of them to be so humble that they don't need people drooling over them, but we tend to like it in moderation. Just last night, I played a gig where quite a few people came up to tell me I am the best they have heard (I really know how to fool people). After the first few, which fed the ego enough, it became a real pain in the ***. We just need to be happy staying in the background, and be content with the fact that we make the artist (or singers in your band) sound as good as they do. They couldn't do it without us.
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Elton Smith · From: Texas, USA

I've been playing for dancers and listeners for over 40 years.Its part of my soul.To me a musican with out ears to hear him,or her is useless.What I mean by that is,we hone our skills,but we grade ourselves by the reaction we get by entertaining other people.If I play for a very responive crowd I play better.Not on purpose It just seems to happen.If Im just the radio in the back ground,I love to play with the band.As far as me being someone special,I don't think im the one to make that call.The best compliment I think I ever got,was I told a guy how long I had been doing this ,He shook my hand ,and said thank you,Yall have givin me somewhere to go and do for all those years.
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Good discussion - to me, it goes beyond just music to one's entire picture of self-worth.

I think it's very important (for me, at least) to get past marking my value, strictly or sometimes even at all, by what others think about me. Of course, what others think is relevant from a practical point of view - if nobody thinks your work has value, they won't pay you, and it becomes hard to survive and do the things you want.

But once past that - if I'm surviving and functioning well and doing things I like - why the hell should I care too much what others think about me? What's a pedestal for? Why should that trump my own sense of self-worth in one direction or another? In fact, I implicitly mistrust anyone who would put me on a pedestal to the point where they are blind to my faults. To my way of thinking, it is critical to acknowledge reality, both good and bad. The old saw is, 'don't believe your own press.'

What can be hard on self-worth is someone I respect coming at me with very harsh criticism. I would have to take that seriously, think about it, and do something about it if I conclude they're correct. But if, upon critical reflection, I thought their criticism was without merit, I think I could probably handle that - but I guess my view of these people would change. I hope not to put that to the test, but sometimes people come to an impasse, and have to move on. I've had that happen a few times, and I think I can honestly say that, in retrospect, I believe I made the right choice for me.

Pedestals are a trap for the insecure, my opinion.

Clyde Mattocks · From: Kinston, North Carolina, USA

For me, when you're playing live, it's the knowledge that you're creating something that can be experienced only once. Yes, hearing the ones who come up and say you're the best they've ever heard must be tempered with the reality that they've never heard Emmons, Green or Hughey and that people generally will tell you what they think you want to hear.

My validation comes when someone says something like "I like your playing, because you play what fits instead of hot dogging." Then I know I've connected. I'd rather somone hear me play over a period of months or years to realize that I know what I'm doing than to try to blow them away in one song.
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Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

It's not "pedestal". It's "pedal steel". Winking

(...sorry, couldn't help it)

Jeff Evans · From: Cowtown and The Bill Cox Outfit

(This should be in the Pedestal section.)

Actually, very good topic, Mark.

Mark Dershaw · From: Arizona and Ohio

More than one of you have mentioned how we feel about our "steel" idols. When I was new to pedal steel, I practically worshipped these guys. I just couldn't beleive it when someone else didn't feel the same way that I did about it. Again, our world is different from theirs. Oh, and Jeff... have a double meat burger on me (best movie ever).

Bill McCloskey · Posted 11 Aug 2010 4:39 am

Interesting topic. I've brought this up before, but seems appropriate to bring up again: when I studied fingerstyle guitar with Dave Van Ronk, it was his opinion that most people really don't like music. The music that they do listen to is usually because they associate the song with a particular event in their lives - high school, what have you. But loving music goes beyond the handful of songs you might have heard at your prom.

Think of food lovers: food lovers love the experience of food and a new experience is something to look forward to. Compare that to someone who only eats steak and potatoes. They may love their steak and potatoes, but they are not food lovers (they may love to eat, but that is different than being a food lover). For a food lover, it is the experience of something new that satisfies.

We have many people on this forum like that. Those that only listen to a narrow genre of music: country music from a specific time frame for instance and everything else is crap. I would say that these folks are not music lovers, while they may love the music they listen to repeatedly, the music is filling a different need than a general love of music. Those who love music, at least the ones I've met, are always looking for a new music experience.

I have no interest in sports. Music has always been the thing I love and my love for music covers everything: country, jazz, Stephen Sondheim, hip hop, avante-guard, pop, folk, Javanese, monkey chants, bulgarian folk singers, music for the Rothko chapel, tom waits, dave van ronk, ramblin jack elliot, eric dolphy, john cage, bach, stravinski, theloneous monk, bill monroe, two unknown white rappers I heard once in a lower east side dive bar, john adams, nam june pike, shakahatchi music, hammer dulcimer, robert randolph....you get the idea.

Bo Legg · Posted 11 Aug 2010 6:34 am

I deleted my post for fear of losing my insignificance.

Joe Miraglia · From: Jamestown N.Y.

Try to be and good person first,playing a steel guitar that comes in second.
The better person comes in first place before the better steel player. Joe

Joachim Kettner · From: Germany

Sometimes I compare myself to anyone who's good at something, but just don't get the recognition they deserve. Painters, writers, or contrary occupations like sports. There must be many of those who are better than the succesful ones. The art is to be satisfied with what you can do, and not worry about what you could have been.

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

This is exactly how i felt and what i used to do when asked for an autograph while working for a Nashville artist back in the 60s. I used to catch heck from some of the ones i worked for because i refused to sign an autograph. When forced to i would put an X and no one noticed at the time.

The reason i woulden't was because i had some kind of hang up. It embarrassed me so much to be asked. I grew up on a farm,got in to music at a very early age and got into it making my living at it by accident.On the road i figured they would want the singers autograph but for the life of me i could not figure out why any one would want mine as i was nobody. Only playing for a living.
I believe to this day this is one of the reasons i didn't work out of Nashville very long. There were some wonderful people playing in and working out of there but it seemed to me one had to have an inflated ego to fit in.
I recall sitting in bars and cafes on Broadway and pickers bragging who they were working for and mostly starving. This is my personal opinion on it and not to reflect on any one else or ask any one to agree with me. Just passing time. Very Happy

Tracy

Joe Rogers · From: Lake Charles, LA USA

Mark,

It was always my desire to be a lead singer. In fact, rhythm guitar was all I could play till I turned 18. Then after learning a few instruments, I moved to Nashville and saw what the artists go through. Coming off of a gig at 1 AM, signing autographs till 2 AM, sleeping on a bus till 5 AM, then waking up to go to a radio station for the 6 AM drive time interview with a DJ who may or may NOT be playing your record made me realize I was quite content living out my musical desires as a sideman. Smile

To me music is about expressing emotions. An emotion is an Energy in Motion. All energy needs to come out one way or the other. Songwriters let it out by writing songs. Singers let it out by belting tunes. Musicians express it through their instrument.

I think musicians have it the best because our language is both "hidden" AND universal. I say "hidden", because even though I cannot understand Italian, I can listen to someone carry on a conversation in Italian and get the feel of the emotions he is conveying. Likewise, a non-musician may not understand what I am playing, yet if I'm doing a good job, the emotion will still touch them.

Music is also universal in that if I am onstage with someone who speaks a foreign language I don't understand, we can still communicate beautifully through the language of music and understand each other as if we DID speak the same verbal language.

So to my way of thinking, ANYONE who has something to say musically is certainly not insignificant. Smile

Joe Rogers

Danny Bates · From: Fresno, CA. USA

Joe Rogers said:

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

I don't sit on anything other than my steel seat. I'm mainly concerned about the folks that attend our steel shows and support them. I done the club scene for 30 years and most of the time it was guitar players with egos, club owners wanting you to play for the door or some other kind of pain in rear. It was a lesson well learned and paid for after two divorces and three kids. Music is an expression of ones self through there instrument. Being in the company of good friends and fellow steel players doesn't require anything to sit on but a good steel seat behind there guitar! Nothing like experience to help see the light!

Scott Henderson · From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA

This is a great topic and one of the most note worthy ones I've seen in quite sometime...I gues the big question each of need to ask ourselves is.."Why"
Why do we do what we do...My personal mission statement for my life is I am happy when I make other people happy...so that's why I do...(I sure haven't played music for the money LOL) Seomone brought up steel shows. I approach steel shows in a different way then most..I watch crowds and notice more enthusiests (SP) then steelers. So the last thing on my mind is playing monstor licks that nobody has heard before (HEHEHEHEHE) I concentrate on entertaining every one.. I get joy from that. I have had the opportunity to play wth some awesome players...what did I get from that? Great memories...
That's why I do what I do...Joy...We're only special if we give the world exactly what we are...
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