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Topic: Getting a Non-Pedal to cry like this. |
Gary Reed
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 12 Aug 2010 4:35 am |
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| Trade it in for a pedal steel. Sorry, couldn't resist. But seriously, I've heard some pretty good soundin pedal style licks on non pedal but it's never gonna be able to do some of the things you can only do with a pedal steel. |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 12 Aug 2010 6:17 am Yep...
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What Andy said!
But to Gary's point, one can fake it with a lot of practice, but it's never going to quite get all the way there. I heard someone play in a PSG style with pulls and slants, etc., on an MSA Superslide, and it was as close as you can get on a lap steel, at least to my ears. I think amp and pickup are highly critical, too.
I've been bar-slanting and doing other little tricks on one of my Stringmaster necks (tuned in E6, with the high E on top), and with the volume pedal, it kind of gives one the impression it's a PSG, but usually just to those unfamiliar with the differences. Most casual listeners are fooled into thinking I'm playing a PSG. Truthfully though, it's just a stop-gap measure until I can finally get a real PSG to get those licks and tones. 
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Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Custom-made 25" aluminum cast "fry pan" with vintage Ricky p'up (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); 1953 Oahu Tonemaster; assorted ukuleles; upright bass |
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Bob Hickish
From:
Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 12 Aug 2010 6:27 pm
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in order to do that you could add pedals to your non pedal steel - that would get it . 
I have to agree with our Forum friend basilh in the UK -- like he said -- Non/ pedal is easier to learn but harder to play at a level -- pedal is harder to learn but easier to play at a level --
Thats what he said & i find it to be true . |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 12 Aug 2010 7:09 pm
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| It's just that most steel players don't have the technique to get'er done and that's why the pedal steel was invented. Dancing feet and swaying knees have the job that left/bar hands should be doing. |
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J. Wilson
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 12 Aug 2010 7:34 pm
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Andy is pretty much right. BUT... you can get pretty close with some good compression, light overdrive and some heavier reverb. A good pedal board will take you as close as you can get without buying the real McCoy.
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If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On. -Shakespeare
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1941 Ric B6 / 1948 National Dynamic / 1951 Bronson Supro / Custom teak wood Allen Melbert / Tut Taylor Dobro / Gold Tone Dojo / Martin D15S / Eastman P10 |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Andrew Roblin
From:
Various places
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Posted 14 Aug 2010 6:47 am
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Thanks, Bill, for your very interesting suggestion.
And thanks for letting us hear your beautiful music.
I have to say, Wow. |
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Jesse Adams
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 14 Aug 2010 7:00 am
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Well Gary, I don't know much about making a non pedal sound like a pedal but it sure can cry. I've heard guys like Kayton Roberts and jerry byrd squeeze more tear drops out of their non pedal than most pedal players I've heard.
here's Kayton playing some heartbreaking steel!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VoU5kmqasY
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What's that weird twangy slide thingy? |
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 14 Aug 2010 9:10 pm
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Hey guys I have to strongly disagree with your comments about not being able to pull a pedal steel sound out of a non-pedal. I have a long scale Remington D10 that can fool many long time steel players.
In fact I have had Kyle Rhodes tell me that it would be a waste of money for me to go out an buy a pedal steel because I am doing almost the same thing with the non-pedal D10.
A little tweaking of your amp, proper use of the volume pedal, learning how to do proper bar slants, along with using a long scale steel, you get the pedal steel sound.
<b>However::::::</b> If you want to go into the electronic gadget stacks that pedalers are now into a non-pedal cannot touch them "unless" the non-pedaler wants to go the same route. I always play straight up, guitar to volume pedal to amp.
By the way, <b>fantastic job Bill.</b> |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 14 Aug 2010 9:40 pm
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- Use an E13 tuning with a .012 high G# (Roy Wiggins tuning).
- Master the reverse bar slant on strings 1 and 4 to simulate the A+B pedals. Also on strings 2 & 4 for the A pedal effect (two frets span) and A+F.
- Play just two notes at a time
- Use a volume pedal
- Use reverb and echo
To get started, learn Tom Brumley's "Together Again" solo. It has most of the tricks in it.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 14 Aug 2010 10:24 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
- Use an E13 tuning with a .012 high G# (Roy Wiggins tuning).
- Master the reverse bar slant on strings 1 and 4 to simulate the A+B pedals. Also on strings 2 & 4 for the A pedal effect (two frets span) and A+F.
- Play just two notes at a time
- Use a volume pedal
- Use reverb and echo
To get started, learn Tom Brumley's "Together Again" solo. It has most of the tricks in it. |
Couldn't have said it better myself b0b. A long scale will also help to get the pedal steel sound. I love the steel work in Vince Gill,s "Look At Use" It took me two years but I can now hang it in there pretty good on the Remington D10. |
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Ambrose Verdibello
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 15 Aug 2010 5:44 am
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To add to Bob's excellent suggestions, it is helpful to use a re-entrant tuning where you have a 7th or 9th (or both) as strings 1 and 2. Bill Hatcher's great playing shows how useful these notes are to emulate the E9 pedal sounds.
It sure helps to have a 10 string guitar but with an 8 string you can choose either a 7th or 9th based on preference and playing style. It's interesting how adding those one or two strings opens up a lot of possibilities. Fun too. |
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Gary Reed
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Posted 15 Aug 2010 9:11 am
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| b0b wrote: |
- Use an E13 tuning with a .012 high G# (Roy Wiggins tuning).
- Master the reverse bar slant on strings 1 and 4 to simulate the A+B pedals. Also on strings 2 & 4 for the A pedal effect (two frets span) and A+F.
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I really do appreciate all the help on this.
I do get confused with b0b's statement above. I don't understand what an A pedal or B pedal does. I know it sharps or flats, but on which of the 2 strings b0b is referring to.
I use C6+A7 - Jerry Byrd on a Remington S8. I have the 5th separation of b0b's 2 & 4 strings. (the high and low strings are reversed though), which I'm such will cause some kind of a snag.
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I also have the combination of the 3rd and 5th of the chord (in multiple positions) as b0b's 1 and 4 combination.
Ambrose
I don't think i can add a re-entrant tuning to mine. Thank you though! |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 15 Aug 2010 9:31 am
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Here are the basic A+B slants in C6+A7 tuning:
| Tab: |
E ___7---8---7___________________________
C _______\________7---7____7---7___7---7_
A _______\____________\____\___________\_
G ___7---9---7____7---9____9---7_______\_
E _________________________________7---8_
C# ______________________________________
G C G G C C G G C |
...otherwise known as the AB mash. 
They won't have the right timbre in C6th tuning, though. The technique is the same in E13th, but it doesn't sound as bright in C6th.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Paul M. Matthews
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 26 Aug 2010 4:17 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
Here are the basic A+B slants in C6+A7 tuning:
| Tab: |
E ___7---8---7___________________________
C _______\________7---7____7---7___7---7_
A _______\____________\____\___________\_
G ___7---9---7____7---9____9---7_______\_
E _________________________________7---8_
C# ______________________________________
G C G G C C G G C |
...otherwise known as the AB mash.
They won't have the right timbre in C6th tuning, though. The technique is the same in E13th, but it doesn't sound as bright in C6th. |
Bob,
Is there any kind of tutorial or course that teaches this kind of tips and tricks for us newbies?
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I want to Steel it all..... |
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Steve Becker
From:
Daytona Beach FL
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Posted 26 Aug 2010 4:54 pm
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| Junior Brown gets some amazing pedal like sounds on his 'git-steel'. I don't know how he does it. Maybe he's using pedal steel in the studio, cause it sure sounds like one! |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 26 Aug 2010 9:50 pm
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Paul, I don't know of any courses for this stuff. It's sort of obvious if you also play pedal steel.
Steve, Junior does play pedal steel on some songs on his albums. He's real good at it, too.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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