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Topic: ZK's E 6/9 Tuning S10-The G Lever =BIG CHORDS |
Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 28 Jul 2010 8:07 pm |
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I'm very excited about this E 6/9 Tuning! I'm going to show you in this video how you can get some VERY nice major 7, major 9, minor, 7, minor 9, flat 9, #11 chords and more! All on a 10 string! I think you are going to love this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQP1YBLHvNg
Here is the current copedent on my E 6/9 Tuning for S10.
4 pedals, 5 levers, 10 strings! I trust most of you have that much of a steel guitar. Consider some of this idea that this "G" Lever opens up for you.
With the RKR engaged you basically have a window into the following chord voicings...
1) G Major Triad
2) G Maj. 7
3) G Maj. 9
4) G Minor Triad
5) G Minor 7
6) G Minor 9
7) G dom. 7
 G dom. 9
9) G 7 (flat 9)
10) G 7 (sharp 9)
11) G Aug. 11
There are of course others but all of these are in the open position. I point these out because they are all very useful and they have a nice full voicing.
Personally, I think this is huge plus for a 10 string player. I realize that many C6 type chords are achieved on the E9 neck by lowering the Es and playing C position at say the 1st fret. However, the above demonstration in my humble opinion shows a richer tone.
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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Dan Burnham
From:
Greenfield, Tennessee
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Posted 29 Jul 2010 7:38 am Love It
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Zane,
That is excellent. This seems to be the best of both worlds for the E9 guys that want C6 but don't want an extra neck. Plus, they already have the floors and knees in place.
Dan
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BMI S12 Zane Beck's Tuning
www.danburnham.com |
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Brad Malone
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2010 2:08 pm country and pop on one neck.
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| Zane, your setup really improves the bottom side of the regular E9th tuning by allowing one to get lower voiced and more extended, complex chords...great for country and popular music..IMHO. Thanks for all your great ideas and hard work..this is a great thread. |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 29 Jul 2010 2:42 pm 10 Strings
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Brad and Dan - thanks!!!
I'd also like to think it is an improvement on the bottom side of the E9 standard. I can see players even now adopting this on strings 9 and 10. You really don't lose anything with this change especially when you consider how much you gain.
Still more to come so stay tuned!
ZK
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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 29 Jul 2010 2:48 pm
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| I love the tone you get on that video. What kind of amp are you playing through? |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 29 Jul 2010 3:37 pm
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Lee,
Thanks! I actually just started using a mic on it and recording through Pro Tools. So compared to previous videos it should sound much different. I will tell you that I'm very pleased with the tone. The amp on this video is wedge model Peavey Session 400. I also use a Lexicon MX200 Effects Processor. I'm not sure you are familiar with those wedge amps but the cabinet really contributes to a deep sound. I also believe that depth is characteristic of the tuning as well. Keep in mind that is a 10 string steel that I'm playing.
Be looking later for another video. I'm just finishing up some examples on my S10 where I'm demonstrating some commercial tones and stylings.
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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Brad Malone
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2010 6:46 pm Zane's tuning
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| Zane another great sounding chord your tuning makes available is the G9th chord with pedals 3 and 4 engaged on strings 6, 7 and 9, notes A, F and B..now when one slides down from the 12th fret to the 11th fret and plays the same strings and releases pedal 3 with still engaging pedal 4 one has notes G, E and Bb or C7th...go on to resolve on fret 13 or fret 8 for the F chord That 9th chord on fret 5 is of course C9th..a really good sounding blues chord. I do the same thing on my set-up but on strings 6, 7 and 10. |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 30 Jul 2010 2:56 pm
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Just posted this in the Players section since it is a song idea. I wanted to add it to this existing thread because I feel this is yet another demonstration on my tuning setup can offer. I believe the "guitar" type riffs in the middle of the solo section is very typical of something that can be accomplished with E 6/9 Tuning. Fun anyway!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sLTOBQ8h68
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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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John Clark
From:
Arkansas, USA
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Posted 3 Aug 2010 6:09 pm
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| ZANE--I'VE BEEN WATCHING WITH INTEREST YOUR GREAT TUNING IDEAS. HOW MUCH WOULD A PLAYER LOSE IN THIS TUNING IF THE FIRST AND SECOND STRINGS WERE REVERSED? AFTER GOING OUT TO THE 1ST STRING FOR THE NINTH TONE FOR 40 YEARS THAT WOULD BE MY BIGGEST CHALLENGE, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO BLOCKING. ALSO, IF YOU EVER HAVE THE TIME, COULD YOU POST A TRADITIONAL 6TH TYPE SONG, LIKE MAYBE THE INTRO TO NIGHT LIFE, OR SOME OLD SWING TUNE USING THIS TUNING? I'D REALLY LIKE TO HEAR IT. I HAVE A TEN STRING 4 PEDAL 5 KNEE I MIGHT SET UP LIKE THIS. THANKS-JOHN. |
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David Griffin
From:
Jimmy Creek,Arkansas via Cowtown, USA
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 4 Aug 2010 8:33 pm Answers to some questions
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Hi John C. in Arkansas! Always good to hear from my home state! Go Razorbacks! Thank you David G. too!
As for the top string question, I really believe this is one of the unique advantages that have with regard to all my stylings. That said, I can not recommend deviating from my setup where that is concerned. Honestly speaking, that has always been the trouble area with me trying to share instructional method books with E9 players. I'm not boasting at all here but with what I do on the top side 4 strings is just so radically different that I have to only use about 50% of what I can do when teaching to someone on a standard E9. Likely that will offend someone but it's a reality for me. That's why I'm now promoting this version of my tuning in a 10 string because I do want to be able to share more and more of my ideas and approach. I am putting some links here for you to some of my videos that particularly focus on the top 4 strings.
ALSO-look later in the Steel Players section and I'm posting a tune for you there. It's not completely traditional c6 but it's a little peppy version of "Shadow Of Your Smile".
Link #1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO4YSlxzqxc
Link #2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PClV50Mxpac
Link #3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkc1wvS_myg
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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Brad Malone
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 6 Aug 2010 8:14 am bottom end question
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| Zane, one more question about your 12 string tuning..on string 8 do you prefer having it a D or an E?..I notice that Zane Beck had it a D and then he used his RRKL to change it to E. Speedy West also used a D between the F# and B strings but he had no knee lever to change it. Just wondering which is best for your style of playing. |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 6 Aug 2010 8:25 am
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Brad - Great question! I had wondered if anyone was following close enough to realize that change. Somewhere in those many You Tube videos of mine I discuss this "E" versus "D" on the 8th string. As you do know, I have made many additions to the original ZB Tuning. That's why I'm touting it as the E 6/9 Tuning in both a 10 and 12 string setup. ZB still gets complete credit for the concept of the tuning and I'm just attempting to enhance it for both a broad and yet a specific use. Hence the 10 and 12 versions.
Now as for the question, what I have determined is that the "D" can be easily attained with my knee lever. From an "E" perspective this makes perfect sense and actually as you have already pointed out earlier this very well could be an enhancement to the standard E9 setup. We'll see in time if it catches on. Now from my "C" perspective I have found at times I have to remember to engage the "D" note because I have since the beginning always had that tuned open to a "D". Thus, I have to also remember to NOT engage the my RKL where my "E" note used to be. Again from the "E" setup it is marvelous and likely will allow those who follow me an easier transition from the double neck to my setup.
All that said, I have yet to find any limitations with this "E" vs. "D" in the open tuning. This is the ONE and ONLY significant change that I have made from the original ZB copedent. There are a couple of minor adjustments but that's nothing more than preference. The additions are very useful. Basically those are pedals 5,6,7.
ZK
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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 6 Aug 2010 11:21 am
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Zane, I don't know if you saw the thread about the 12 string keyless Marlen guitar I just purchased. I was going to get it set up like my BMI but I've thought it out and I think I'm going with a version of your tuning except I will be having a 9th string C# so it'll be like this from high to low.... G# F# E C# B G# F# E C# B G# E ......So you can see, the same sequence of strings you have on 1 through 5 will be repeated an octave lower on strings 6 through 10....
It'll have multiple octave grips in the basic tuning. From the 5th string on down it'll be exactly like my BMI so mostly the experimental part will be on the first four strings. I already have the same notes as you but in a different order (F# C# G# E). I'm enjoying those forward roll moves that you're doing and I can't wait to try some of that stuff out. I figure if I leave the bottom 8 strings the same it won't be as hard to get used to.
I'll be using the Emmons setup with pedal one raising the 5th and 10th strings to C#.
Pedal two with raise the 1st, 6th, and 11th strings G# to A.
Pedal three will raise the 5th and 6th strings a whole tone each for a standard B6th change.
Pedal four will lower strings 7, F# to F and lower string 12, E to C#.
My RKR will lower strings 3 and 8, E to Eb (D#)
My RKL will raise the same strings to F.
My LKR will raise both C# strings to D
My LKL, I'm undecided as I'd like to lower the 5th and 10th strings B to Bb but... I'm debating lowering the C# strings to C. If you had the option between the two, which do you think you might prefer. I've already been lowering my B's for many years so I'll probably stick with that, but maybe not.
I don't have as much to work with as this guitar only has 4 FP and 4 KL on it.
I have an appointment at Billy Cooper's steel shop in Orange, Va. next Wednesday to drop off the steel to get it set up properly so It'll be a week or two before I get up there to pick it up. I'm going to leave the guitar set up at home in this tuning to experiment with and hopefully I'll get it going. My BMI will continue to be my gig guitar....Have a great day and keep the good stuff coming....JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 6 Aug 2010 11:25 am
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Jerry - I will re-read your message later so I can digest it more but at first glance...Woohoo! I love the direction you are going on this. Great ideas!
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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Billy Tonnesen
From:
R.I.P., Buena Park, California
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Posted 6 Aug 2010 12:23 pm
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| Zane: Ever since my first pedal STeel in 1958 I always left the C# String in my E9th Tuning. (From playing non-pedal Steel the previous 15 years). I always thought I was the "odd ball" Steel player. It is really refreshing to see I wasn't that far off of your Copedant. Due to health reasons I had to quit playing in 2006. Really miss it, but there are not that many places for my generation to play any more. |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 6 Aug 2010 5:54 pm
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Billy T. - I'm sorry to hear you are unable to enjoy playing these days. The steel guitar is indeed a physically demanding instrument. I'm not sure how many people appreciate that fact. That "C# note indeed is a vital part of steel guitar tunings. I'm curious what string # you used the C# note on. And did you lower or raise it at all?
Warm Regards,
Zane
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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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Brad Malone
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 7 Aug 2010 4:20 am Zane Becks' amazing 12 string tuning
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| Zane, Zane Beck raises his 4th string C# to D with his LVKL...his 2nd string is F# so he has replicated Speedy West's 10 string F#9 open string tuning, albeit one tone lower. One could also raise the 3rd string E to F# with the same LVKL thus eliminating the need to reach for the F# on the second string. This completely amazes me..I never realized it before we had this conversation. |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 7 Aug 2010 7:18 am
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Brad - you got your "thinking cap" on! 
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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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John Wilson
From:
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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Posted 9 Aug 2010 12:01 pm
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Hey Zane,
I'm really diggin' what you're doing with this tuning and I like the possibilities it offers for non-traditional playing. I have a million questions but I don't want to be a pest so I'll space em' out and try to digest slowly.
Main question: I have a BMI S-10 with 3/4 right now, but I'm getting ready to order an add-on pedal kit. To move to your tuning I'd have to compromise for now, so which pedals and K/Ls would be essential, and which would you add later?
Thanks,and much appreciated.
John
Brief background:
Guitar playing - 40+ years
Steel playing - 2 years
Styles played - Rock, jazz, alt, beatnik, coffee house folk, anything "odd" (I really don't play country at all, original stuff as well.
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Customer: "Waiter, how do you prepare your chicken?"
Waiter: "We usually tell them they're not going to make it." |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 9 Aug 2010 12:47 pm
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John,
Wonderful! Here is actually a 10 string version of my tuning I have designed. This will give you a lot to explore until you can go into a S12. Let me know if you have any questions.
Zane
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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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John Wilson
From:
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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Posted 9 Aug 2010 4:15 pm
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Hi Zane,
I'm sorry - I need to clarify my last post. While I would love to move to 12 string down the road, I'll be playing a 10 for quite a while. I was thinking more that since I only have 3P and 4KL, what changes would I want to set up on the KL's first; assuming more pedals and KL's can be added later. I'm thinking your RKR "G" lever and 4 pedal might have to wait. (Which KL's are you using the most?)
Thoughts?
PS. I did look at your latest vid and it is a very good "quick look" at your tuning.
Thanks,
J.
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Customer: "Waiter, how do you prepare your chicken?"
Waiter: "We usually tell them they're not going to make it." |
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Zane King
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 9 Aug 2010 6:51 pm
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John,
This posting above is a 10 string, 4 pedal, 5 knee setup. So tune the 10 strings just like is outlined. Simply drop Pedal #4 and the Vertical. You should be able to setup your guitar with 3 pedals and 4 knees and still have plenty of my basic setup.
Zane
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Zane King
Email: zaneking@me.com |
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John Wilson
From:
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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Posted 10 Aug 2010 5:30 am
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Zane,
Great, that works for me. Hopefully I can to get that (4th) pedal kit ordered soon.
Thanks,
J.
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Customer: "Waiter, how do you prepare your chicken?"
Waiter: "We usually tell them they're not going to make it." |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2010 6:41 am
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Hello Zane
Where can I see a picture of your 12 string copedent?
I went to the BMI website but only found the last Zane Beck copedent. The 12 string copedent I am now using looks a lot like your 10 string...I'm interested in what your are doing with strings 11, and 12.
Thanks |
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