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Topic: Who has used a Fender BF 2x12' (any variety) vs. a 1x15" |
Paul Haun
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2010 7:56 pm |
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I just love my BF pro reverb...2x12 setup right now. However, now that I'm getting into steel as well, I keep hearing about the 15" speaker being better. Thinking about A) either getting a separate 15" cab to use with the PR chassis through a longer extension B) changing the PR cab to a 15" baffle or C) getting another "reissue" cab that fits the PR chassis but holding a 15", ala a vibroverb or twin 15.
What is your take on the 2x12 vs. 1x15. Pros/cons of both these setups with guitar and steel...
thanks again y'all |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Hermitage, TN
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Posted 18 Jul 2010 9:45 pm
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| I like a 15" speaker but I'd go with 2x12" JBL's, only because I really like using 2 speakers and that way you don't have to carry an extra cab, or mismatch ohms if you don't bring it. JBL's sound great for steel in either size. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 19 Jul 2010 7:58 am
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A single 4 ohm 15" speaker matches impedance equally well to two 8-ohm 12" speakers in parallel, as normally seen on a Pro Reverb.
Beyond that, it's strictly up to personal preferences which sounds better, and IMO that depends on exactly which speakers and cabinet one is using and how you're going to use them. There's a big difference between, let's say, 2-12" JBL or EV speakers vs. the 2-12" stock speakers - usually Jensen or Oxford speakers that come with a typical BF Pro Reverb - vs. a typical 15" pedal steel speaker - let's say a Peavey Black Widow, JBL, EV, or something like that.
The only way I've ever been able to figure out what I need is to do a comparison test with my own guitars playing the kind of music I want to play with them. This is generally easy to do - find someone with an extension cab with a 15" speaker and do the A/B test. Depending on where you are, you might even be able to find a store that has a 15" cab in stock and enough raw speakers around to work with you on this.
Being a guitar amp addict, I've tried a large number of Fender amp/speaker combinations - anything from Princeton/Deluxe/Vibrolux/Pro/Super/Twin Reverbs with 1x10, 2x10, 4x10, 1x12, 2x12, and 1x15 speakers just to see what they sound like with various guitars. Jensens, Oxfords, Utahs, JBLs (D, K, M), EV (SRO, Force, EVM), Peavey Black Widow, Celestion (Vintage 30, Greenbacks, and later), whatever. The thing I notice is that it depends completely on the guitars and application. If you say what type of music and sounds you're looking for, you can probably get more specific advice on this. |
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Rich Hlaves
From:
Wildomar, California, USA
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Posted 19 Jul 2010 8:01 am
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Paul,
I just did this with a Twin Reverb, the big brother of your Pro. I installed a 1-15 baffle and a JBL D130F. Is it better for steel? Yes, but only marginally and going from 2 speakers to one there is a volume loss. If I didn't have the power of the Twin behind it I would be going back to the 2-12 set up. (Chicago C12N Jensens) There is also a noted loss of sparkle in the tone with six string guitar. If you use the amp for anything else (Tele, Strat), you may not like it as well after the swap.
Note, the stock BF Pro Reverb cabinet is a bit shorter that the Twin by an inch or more! I own a '67 BF PR. The swap, if you decided to do it, may require a Twin height cab to have clearance for the 15" speaker. As it was I had to notch the lower baffle brace for speaker clearance. The speaker must sit very low in the cabinet or it may contact the cap cover can. Depending on the speaker you use, you could have contact with the output transformer. Both are very close in my amp. It's tighter in there than I thought once I got the project started. There is no sneaking the speaker in with the chassis on place either.
The hot set up IMO would be a head cab for the PR and two 1-15 cabs for the speakers. I would like to experiment with a 15" and a 10" speaker in the Twin cab next.
_________________
On man....let the smoke out of another one. |
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Paul Haun
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 19 Jul 2010 3:14 pm
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I think I'll try an extension cab..probably best way to a/b it....weird question but can you run an a/b switch from the speaker output of the chassis to both the 2x12 and extension cab to switch "on the fly"
Any particular JBL? I have two webers vintage 12's in there right now...
And might be funny, but the 15 draining power might be a good thing as I have a tough time practicing with the volume of the PR in the house...was looking at some attenuators as we speak too... |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 20 Jul 2010 2:37 am
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I use a Music Man HD 212, with two 12s. Recently I had a chance to try out the same amp that had been modified with one 15 inch speaker.
I set my usual setting on the amp with the 15" speaker, so the only difference would be the speaker itself. I felt that the 15 inch speaker delivered a cleaner, crisper tone, but my amp with the two 12 inch speakers sounded warmer.
I preferred the sound of the two 12s, and decided not to modify my amp after the comparison.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 20 Jul 2010 3:08 am
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I have several Fender amps that I've tried with a JBL K130 15" in a Rick Johnson cab recently. The Twin and Dual Professional are a bit too much power for it. The single JBL breaks up earlier than the 2X12 Jensens and Vintage 30's respectively. My '66 Bandmaster sounds great thru it as well as thru 2 P12N's which are 25W@. I haven't tried it thru the HotRod Deluxe yet, but I'm betting that will sound great too. I admit I've gotten used to the BW in my NV1000, which really is a great sounding loudspeaker, but the JBL 15" with tube amps is a wonderful combination I'm quickly getting fond of. I was thinking of starting a thread on using both 12 and 15's together. Seems most prefer one or the other.
Clete |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 20 Jul 2010 6:07 am
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| Quote: |
| weird question but can you run an a/b switch from the speaker output of the chassis to both the 2x12 and extension cab to switch "on the fly" |
With a simple mechanical switch, I'd put the amp on standby while making the switch. I'd also use a make-before-break switch.
If you want to switch between two cabinets truly 'on the fly' without going to standby, I'd use something like this - http://www.tonebone.com/tb-cabbone.htm
| Quote: |
| Any particular JBL? I have two webers vintage 12's in there right now... |
As I said earlier, choice of speakers depend on what kind of music you play and what you want to sound like. There are variations in even a particular model of Weber speaker. Remember also that what works for typical 6-string application may or may not work well for pedal steel, depending on what kind of steel sound you're going for.
With that said, I have different cabs set up right now - e.g.,
1-15" JBL K-130
1-12" EVM-12L
2-12" JBL D-130F
1-12" Celestion Vintage 30
What I prefer depends on exactly what I'm doing and how loud I need to be. I blew my old JBL D-130F and need to get it reconed. They sound great but really don't handle that much power, especially as the original cone ages. This one blew while playing steel and hooked up to a 20 watt BF Deluxe Reverb. The wide frequency range and long sustain of pedal steel can severely stress a speaker that would be OK for 6-string application.
One other thing - if you're just starting on pedal steel and just need something for home practicing at low volume, what you have now is fine. In this case, I wouldn't waste time obsessing over your amp rig. But if you're playing out, you may need to do something different.
The other thing is that if you're going for a standard clean pedal steel sound, you might be better off just trying something like a Peavey Nashville 112 and leave your Pro as-is, since you seem to like it for guitar. Using a single amp for both guitar and steel often involves a significant compromise, and one can often get a good solid-state pedal steel amp at a cost comparable to, let's say, setting up a cabinet with high-quality speaker(s) for steel. |
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Paul Haun
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2010 10:20 am
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Dave and all..thanks for the input...
Regarding type of music...i'll be more of an alt-co, folk, rock catagory if to place what we play...as for the steel, some will be straight clean, some will have some effect patterns though...reverb, delay, shimmer, drive/fuzz, etc...I agree about the amp at this point actually. I think I'll take a look at this again as I start playing out with the steel...and, think I'll really go the 15" ext. cab for a number of reasons...thanks again for all the input... |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 20 Jul 2010 11:12 am
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| Paul, your music sounds pretty similar to what I play out a lot, and you may be just fine using the Pro with an extension cab with a 4 Ohm high-clarity, high-efficiency 15" speaker and some means to switch on the fly. Myself, I use a NV 112 a lot and it also works fine. There are a lot of ways to deal with this kind of multi-style playing. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2010 7:07 pm
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As a player that has used every about Fender amp made with every speaker combination since the 60's I can say that there is not a huge difference... Actually, although 1x15 is the pedal steel "standard", I like the sound every bit as much with 2x12 or 4x10.. Actually, I feel my "fattest" sound comes with 4 ten cabs... They are ALL good, if the speakers are good.
Probably the single 15 would have just a tad less "meat" to the sound than 2x12 or 4x10, but IMHO the loss would be insignificant.
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 1 Aug 2010 1:54 am
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I bought a 1970 Twin new, I used it with the 2x12's for a few years then when started playing Steel I changed the 2x12's to a Single JBL 15, why ? probably because it was the supposed thing to do. What I did notice thru the years was that the Steel (Pro III) had a good sound, overall, but I always felt that the amp was not as strong as it was early on. I played this amp double duty with the telecaster for years and although I was ok with the guitar tone but I prefered the 2x12 for guitars.
The past few years I have been using a 2x12 HR Deville for Steel on double duty gigs and it just made me realize that I should have just left the '70 Twin ( when I had it ) with the stock 2x12 speakers. Sold that Twin around '90 or so..
My new '71 Twin ( 39 years old) has the stock 2x12 Utah's and this amp will be used for double duty.. so basically it has taken me 20 years to get back to what I had 40 years ago which is what I should have stuck with in the 1st place !
t
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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