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Topic: Cool twist for 6 string open E tuning |
Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 19 Jul 2010 7:02 pm |
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I have played open E for slide guitar and lap steel for many years but thought I would jazz it up a little bit to make it more versatile. I decided to scrap the low E, giving up those strong power chords. *sigh*
My first idea was to replace the low E and B on the 6th and 5th strings with a B and a D, which would add the minor 7th to the open E chord making it an E dominant 7th. While it was really cool to get some dominant chord action going (with the embedded diminished triad!) I decided to lower the D to a C# which would create an E 6th chord. That worked much better, with a lot more harmonic options, and besides hitting the D and E strings at the same time by mistake added a dissonance I could live without.
With the C# as the 5th string, it created a C#m7 chord as well as an E6th chord which was a big improvement harmonically for me. However, after a few weeks I came up with another idea: leave the B as the 5th string but use the C# as the 6th string. Yes, the logical part of my brain rebelled immediately ("the strings are not in order!") but I stayed the course and kept the C# on the bottom where it remains to this day.
With the C# on the bottom, the top 5 strings are exactly as they would be with a strict open E tuning so just about everything you learned with open E can be used intact. With the C# on the bottom it is harder to hit it accidentally so you can use it more selectively.
Plus there is more- if you act now there is an added bonus!  You can raise the C# to either D for the minor 7 or D# for the major 7th to open up more harmonic opportunities. And with that note on the bottom it is easy to be very selective about where you use it.
I'd been using that tuning for several weeks now, usually with the bottom string tuned to C# when I decided to try the open E minor tuning that Sonny Landreth often uses, at least the top 5 strings of that tuning. So I lowered the G# string to G and added one more twist; by tuning the bottom note up to D we come up with an open Em7 chord which happens to be enharmonically the same as a G6th chord. So just like the open E/C# tuning we have easy access to both a major and a minor chord. At least to my ears the open E/C# tuning is predominantly major and the open Em/D tuning is predominantly minor, to give you two different flavors! For even more versatility you can leave the open E minor tuning with the C# on the bottom to get a diminished triad to mix up the deck even more.
What is great about this for me is that it is not like I have to learn a brand new tuning. If you know standard E tuning, open E is a snap, and altering 1 or 2 of the notes in the open E chord isn't that much of a reach for me. It fits in my brain very intuitively.
Speaking of which I am also learning C6 and E13th, which is not very intuitive for me- yet.
Note: any resemblance to established lap steel tunings is strictly unintentional! This is just what happens to work very well with my brain wiring...
Steve Ahola
www.blueguitar.org
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 19 Jul 2010 7:38 pm
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Very inventive Steve, BUT, you say
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| With the C# on the bottom it is harder to hit it accidentally so you can use it more selectively. |
I say that if you're hitting strings "Accidentally" you should go back and practise picking a little more.. |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 20 Jul 2010 2:11 am
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| basilh wrote: |
Very inventive Steve, BUT, you say
| Quote: |
| With the C# on the bottom it is harder to hit it accidentally so you can use it more selectively. |
I say that if you're hitting strings "Accidentally" you should go back and practice picking a little more.. |
I agree with you completely! I only started using fingerpicks and thumbpicks this year, and I do work at it every day. But it was also a brain thing that I was referring to- basically senior moments in which I'd forget that the 5th string was no longer the B. For some reason it is a lot easier for me to remember that the bottom string is no longer the low E, and might change from C# to D to D# depending on my mood.
I was inspired by posts here from and about some of the real pros who would not tune the bottom string to the lowest note. Freddie Roulette comes to mind. Other steel players will add a note on the bottom that would be between, say, the 2nd string and the 4th string. One of the reasons for that was to improve access to some of the slant positions. But another factor is sympathetic vibrations of adjacent strings unless you have one of them muted. Along those lines the bottom string could be tuned up to an F# to add in the major 9th tone without changing the voicing of the other strings. But to do that I would need to use a smaller gauge string than what is on there right now.
Having the "wild card" on bottom just works better for me for all sorts of reasons.
Steve Ahola
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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Kelvin Monaghan
From:
Victoria, Australia
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Posted 20 Jul 2010 2:55 am
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| I like where you are coming from Steve. |
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Kelvin Monaghan
From:
Victoria, Australia
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Posted 20 Jul 2010 2:56 am
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| I like where you are coming from Steve. |
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Peter Jacobs
From:
Northern Virginia
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Posted 20 Jul 2010 5:18 am
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Makes sense to me, Steve -- I agree that we should look for ways to get the sounds we need, and if that means a different tuning, well why not?
I did a similar thing when I realized that I was always skipping over the low B string in open-G tuning. I also wanted a way to get a suspended sound, so I borrowed Keith Richards' idea and went with a 5 string open G (G-D-G-B-G -- power chord central!) and added a C on top. Yes, it's lower than the 2nd string, but it gives me an extra flavor that I throw in occasionally and, like you, I can avoid it when I don't want it.
Nice going -- you came up with a very cool solution.
_________________
Peter
---------
www.splinterville.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@splinterville6278/videos |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 20 Jul 2010 6:26 am
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| basilh wrote: |
| ...if you're hitting strings "Accidentally" you should go back and practise picking a little more.. |
...but what if you've been playing steel for 50 years, practise every night, and STILL hit the wrong string sometimes ? 
I guess that's what separates the amateurs from the professionals.  |
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Danny Bates
From:
Fresno, CA. USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2010 8:43 am
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Yes Alan, Basil is a pro for sure.
Alan said:
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| ...but what if you've been playing steel for 50 years, practise every night, and STILL hit the wrong string sometimes ? |
Alan, get out the wire cutters and show that string who's boss! 
Steve, good work, never stop experimenting with different tunings. If you want to jazz things up a bit and keep the E tuning on 4 strings, try (low to high) A, C#, E, G#, B, E. Tons of majors and minors there.
BTW, When you need a dom7th sound, you can just go up 3 frets from a minor chord and play a 9th. In other words, a C9th is C,E,G,Bb,D and a G minor is G,Bb,D... just let the bass player handle the C note and everybody will be happy. 
If you're ever coming down this way, shoot me an email and stop by and jam. |
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 20 Jul 2010 8:48 am
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| I tried something similar in eight string D but with the options being at the top instead of the bottom. I can't give up my power chords! Can't remember the permutations, it worked well but I couldn't adjust my brain to it well enough for my liking. Maybe I will try again someday. |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 22 Jul 2010 3:42 pm
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| Nicholai Steindler wrote: |
| I tried something similar in eight string D but with the options being at the top instead of the bottom. I can't give up my power chords! Can't remember the permutations, it worked well but I couldn't adjust my brain to it well enough for my liking. Maybe I will try again someday. |
One advantage to having the "wild" card at the bottom is that it seems to work better for slants. With 8 strings you could have two octaves of R-3-5 so you would not lose your power chords... plus a 6th on the bottom. You could use the 6th from either octave- or any other chord tone you would like to use.
I'm not sure if I made my point clear- if you are creating your own style in rock or blues you can come up with a completely original tuning that works for you.
However, if you wish to learn from the old recordings it helps a lot to use the traditional tunings. Not necessarily the same tuning used on the original recording, but it helps if you have the same intervals available in straight position. I've been working on the old Hank Williams songs and am finding that C6 works just as well for me as the E13th(high) tuning that Don Helm used. Actually better for since the notes and intervals are more straightforward, although I will need to figure out slants to get the intervals I am missing.
One thing I read about Don Helms' playing on the Hank Williams records- he didn't like to use slant positions so he would jump up and down the fretboard very quickly to get the intervals he needed without slanting the bar. (At this point OT tangent commences- my bad!)
 Speaking of bars, how are your bars working out? I have been using Jay Seibert's blue RB285 ceramic bar, but with two velcro dots (hook side) to keep it from slipping out of my fingers. These are the 5/8 inch "coins" (as Velcro calls them) and I have one on the bottom end and the other one begins right where the straight part of the bar starts to curve and ends about 1/8 inch from the tip. I first tried the soft Velcro loops but they did not give me enough friction so I switched to the hooks which are kinda rough on your fingers until you develop callouses.
One problem to watch out for is having the bar rotate so that the velcro is touching the strings. The bar still does slip around a little bit so I am think of trying rosin. One other problem with the Velcro: the heat from your fingers can soften the adhesive during extended playing sessions. It might be a good idea to get a 2nd bar so that I could switch them when the velcro piece starts slipping around.(The first time that happened I thought that I was just imagining it- how can it be moving??? )
Steve Ahola
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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Travis Hillis
From:
Nashville TN, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2010 3:48 pm
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After reading this thread I feel the need to get another guitar to experiment with more tunings.
Very enlightening.  |
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